Overpressurizing / Overfilling steel tanks

[Iguana Don]

That was a really profound statement.

I will restate what others have said, "show us some reports."

Again you make statements that you cannot back up with ANY documented "real life" data. Just like the O2 cleaning thread.
It's not that I am trying to bash you, but don't make statements that you cannot or will not back up with facts and data.

What is your experience in tank filling other than your own, I would be interested in your experience to support your claim.

To overfill or not is anybodies busisness, I am neither pro or anti, overfilling.

Just curious. For the sake of arguement, the national speed limit is 70 mph. How many of you drive 75 or 80 mph? The NTSB has studies and facts on increased speed in relation to highway fatalities. The tire makers have this also, driving at high speed on non Z-rated tires.

Makes you think?

ID

 

[Puddle Jumper]

to all,

at the risk of being brow beat to death I would like to say something here. If you are filling your own cyclinders in excess to there stamped pressure rateing, I doubt if you are having them visually inspected annually as required. If your cyclinders are AL cyclinders manufactured with 6351 alloy (its stamped on the neck) it runs a risk of having sustained-load cracking in the neck threads, left undetected long enough(3-4 years) the tank will explode. That folks, is under normal conditions, add over fills to the ratio and who knows? AL cyclinders manufactured with the newer 6061 alloy are less prone to SLC, however you still have the corrision factor that will reduce the cyclinders strengths. Metal cyclinders are a different matter, Corrison on the interior or exterior of the cyclinder will cause pitting, when the pitting exceeds DOT standards then the cyclinder does run a increased risk of rupture. Any one wishing to check what I am stating here may do so by purchasing a book written by the founder of PSI (professional scuba inspectors) titled Inspecting cylinders. Published by watersport publishing Inc, San Diego, CA. Your LDS probably has a copy you can look through. Some one gave there Email address earlier, check it out.
I am concerned that some one with less experience, than many of you, may be out to save a buck and ends up by paying with his life. If you do not know what your talking about, maybe you should not support it. If documentation is what you want contact PSI.

Puddle Jumper
PSI #RE 5759

 

[Lost Yooper]

You won't get any argument from me on most of what you said. A poorly maintained tank has no business being used much less being overfilled. I doubt you'll hear anything to the contrary here.

I don't see the correlation between people who fill their own tanks and them not performing a visual once in a while. Some may not, I guess.

Later.

Mike

 

[roakey]

Puddle Jumper,

The only cylinders being overfilled in cave country are LP steels. Even the die-hard overfillers won't overfill an AL cylinder.

Roak

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by blacknet
No real tech diver would ever consider overfilling a tank.

So I guess the WKPP and GUE aren't made up of real tech divers.

GUE even overfills cylinders in their classes.

Without comment on the rest of your post, this statement is completely false.

Roak

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Mike,

I didn't say filling there own cyclinders, I said filling in excess (overfilling). The correlation in my eyes is, If a person can not see the harm (for what ever reason) in overfilling (a violation of federal regs.) Then I just can not imagine them bringing there tanks to a qualified (trained) cyclinder inspector for a proper exam when ever required. The Industry standard for visual inspection are, annually under normal use (filled less than 5 times per week), if it is ever emptied or burst disk ruptures, if the cylinder exterior is damaged, interal noise, increased weight, evidence of corrosion product on regualtor filter, if air compressor is defective of air smells unusual, previous history is unknown, the valve is removed, after hydrostatic re-test, after long term storage, are all reasons for a professional visuall inspection. Not to beat a point to death, but if there going to fudge in that area when does it stop? No one knows. I do have pictures and a article concerning a death in New Jersey from a cyclinder explosion recently, will post it when I receive it.

Puddle Jumper

 

[Iguana Don]

Puddlejumper,

I do not advocate overfilling of tanks, but the people that I know that do overfill take far better care of their tanks than the average diver does. And that includes visual inspections several times during the year.

The "overfillers" as I mentioned before most generally come from the "technical community" and they are religous about equipment maintainence.

As for your picture posting, please include details and circumstances associated with each picture. Posting pics of this nature without explainations will only cause a stir among the less experienced unless fully explained and details provided.

ID

 

[Lost Yooper]

Ya just gotta love it.

I really want to see factual evidence of a well maintained LP (2640psi) steel tank EXPLODING as the result of overfilling to a reasonable pressure (less than 3500psi). Heck, even if there was A case out there, the odds are so remote of an explosion taking place that even worrying about it will probably put you at more risk of a heart attack than an explosion. The risk one is willing to accept is entirely personnal and, for some, anything less than 500% safe isn't good enough. Whatever, I guess.

Realism can go a long way.

Mike

 

[MrMrEZG]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
Overfilling AL tanks is really bad, but LP steels aren't too bad. I probably wouldn't do it if I owned a dive shop though. Simply put, people fill LP steels to 3500 all the time without incident. Besides, the disk will go first, and then the O-ring. Some people go too far with overfilling their tanks, but a little common sense helps too.

Mike

AL tanks have o-rings and burst disc. so you are saying that some o-ring and some burst disc will do their job and others will not?

it sounds, to me like, you are contridicting yourself

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
Ya just gotta love it.

I really want to see factual evidence of a well maintained LP (2640psi) steel tank EXPLODING as the result of overfilling to a reasonable pressure (less than 3500psi

Mike

If memory serves, when I took my last PSI class from Ed Kasten, he knew of exactly one steel SCUBA cylinder exploding, and that was a 72 in a car trunk from the late 1950s or early 1960s.

That's it.

Eliminate all the ALs letting go and include all the overfilling that goes on in Florida cave country and you have:

1 steel SCUBA cylinder failure from 40 years ago.

For me, that's "safe enough."

Roak