Overpressurizing / Overfilling steel tanks

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omar

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For the liability conscious straight from the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR):

49 CFR 173.302 - Charging of cylinders.
(b) Filling limits (Ref. 173.301 (e)): "Container pressure. The pressure in the container at 70°
F. must not exceed the service pressure for which the container is marked...". That's straightforward enough that no one should have any trouble understanding it.


Now let's examine what the actual reduction in tank life that filling an OMS (Faber) LP80 (3AA) to 3300 psig is versus the DOT stamped rating of 2400 psig.

From the OMS cylinder specification page:
1. The Hydrostatic test pressure is 4000 psig
2. The design life is 10,000 cycles at 4,000 psi

The water jacket test (commonly referred to as a hydrostatic test) is in effect a yield strength test. Where the yield strength is the stress required to produce a small-specified amount of plastic deformation. (plastic deformation is when the material will not return to it's original dimensions).

The mechanical response to stress for metals is commonly plotted on a stress-strain curve. The curve is linear for the 3AA tank from the zero point to the yield strength. What does this mean? That there is a proportional relationship to the behavior of the material at different pressures up to the yield strength. So a fill of 2400 psig in the OMS LP80 with a design life of 10,000 cycles at 4000 psig has an expected life of (4000/2400)*10,000 or 16,667 cycles. At 3300 psig it becomes 12,121 cycles = (4000/3300)*10,000. A reduction of the expected life by 4,546 fills or 12.5 years at one a day. 12,121 fills is one a day for 33 years.

And for what it is worth……

The tensile strength or the ability of this tank to withstand tensile loads without rupture is a minimum of 5970 psig. Where does this figure come from? DOT regulations for the 3AA tank state that "…the wall stress at the minimum specified test pressure may not exceed 67 percent of the minimum tensile strength of the steel as determined from the physical tests required…" [49CFR 178.37 (f) (2)] The physical test required is the water jacket test which we know from the OMS spec page is 4000psi. (4000/0.67) = 5970 psi. For the curious you can get into the spec for the water jacket test if you want as well at 49CFR178.

omar
 
Hello,

Not to start a flame here but you forgot to take a few critical issues into account for the life cycle of the tanks.

Say diver A puts their tanks in the back of the car and drives to the destination, very common, the truck WILL heat up and the pressure on the tank will go up as per the gas law. You also need to take into account the shop monkey who puts the tank in about 6-8" of water and causes thermal issues with the tank and those who perform a fast fill and other improper fills (quite common that shops not filling tanks properly as they attempt to push them out the door as fast as possible). Those figures are for PROPER FILLING of the tank. Also must look at storage which affects tank pressure as well.

Other than that what you posted is commendable.

Ed
 
Ed,

What you are referring to are things like variation, guassian distributions, safety factors, etc. Those are engineering and manufacturing issues that one cannot get from copying something off a website or out of a book.

But, what the hell, why follow any regulations, manufacturer's recommendation, anyhow? They are just words.

Joewr...who was going to ask Omar if that was from the Fitzgerald translation, but I will not....
 
Overfilling tanks is BAD.
Design features that appear to be extremely liberal on paper are for perfectly manufactured items operating in perfect condidions. In the real world we say "the design covers a variety of sins."
Tanks get banged around, diferentially heated, slam-filled, accidentally overfilled, thermal shock from going from trunk to cold water.. OMS tanks [and other painted tanks] in particular are susceptable to unseen rust under the paint.
DO NOT OVERFILL YOUR TANKS.
Rick
 
The numbers presented are a very conservative estimate. As I indicated the material specification is in 49CFR178. The specs for the tanks takes into account the variations in use.
Failure rates rarely are normally distributed and are more likely to have an extreme value distribution such as a Weibull, Gamma or Chi-Square distribution.

I have seen this type of distribution in sample sizes of N=2200+ where the central limit theorem did not hold true and the data needed to be transformed for analysis.

omar

Joe I thought you would have gotten a clue … I still do not find it humorous.
 
I really am...
Omar, your inexperience in the real world SCREAMS from your posts.. when you have burried a few friends who have taken "perfectly acceptable" shortcuts you will change your tune. I have been where you are - I have *known* what will work and what won't. I have burried friends while I escaped unscathed doing the same things -
Granted, combat and carrier aviation ain't diving... but they are both filled with things where taking risk without necessity is just plain foolish - and overfilling a tank is almost *never* necessary. Indeed, the only scenario I can even think of where an overfill would be warranted would be in a time critical rescue.
If you need more gas to do the dive you want to do, get bigger tanks, carry more tanks, make more preparatory stage placement dives.
Don't overfill tanks.
It's stupid.
Rick
 
Overfilling AL tanks is really bad, but LP steels aren't too bad. I probably wouldn't do it if I owned a dive shop though. Simply put, people fill LP steels to 3500 all the time without incident. Besides, the disk will go first, and then the O-ring. Some people go too far with overfilling their tanks, but a little common sense helps too.

Mike
 
Hello,

Well people drink and drive all the time with out incident as well. Does this make drinking and driving a safe practice? NO!

Ed
 
Sure, but people are dying and getting injured from drinking and driving, not from overfilling LP steel tanks to reasonable pressures.

Good try Ed.

Mike
 
Hey,

You can NOT prove that people are not dying from overfilling tanks. Accidents like this is not reported by the media and kept quiet along with the o2 accidents.

Ed
 

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