Overfill of Aluminum Tank

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All the DOT standards reference service pressures at 70F -- does that imply that you can overfill a DOT-3AL tank provided that it cools to 3000 psi or below?

This seems to imply that hot tanks can legally exceed the stamped service pressure:

173.301(e) Container Pressure. The pressure in the container at 70 degrees f must not exceed the service pressure for which the container is marked or designated except as provided in 173.302(c) [173.302(c) describes the "10% overfill" allowed for some steel cylinders
173.301(f) Container pressure a 130 degrees f. The pressure in he container at 130 degrees f shall not exceed 5/4 times the service pressure.

Why bother with 173.301(f) unless overfill to compensate for thermal effects is allowed? (And that is a 25% overfill at 130F)
 
Back to the original question, No I would not overfill your cylinder. The valve itself has nothing to do with whether the cylinder can be overfilled or not. Your LDS shouldn't be giving out that kind of advice, they're completely wrong. :rofl3:
 
you planning on getting some liquid nitrogen?
 
Sherwood SCUBA rep.:
Aluminum can not be over filled. Whoever told you that is wrong. On aluminum the service pressure is what is stamped on the cylinder.

The service pressure is what is stamped on the cylinder REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS MADE OF! It is just as safe (or unsafe) to overfill an aluminum cylinder as it is to overfill a cylinder made from anything else.

ALL SCUBA CYLINDERS are subjected to exactly the same DOT test. They must withstand 10,000 cyles to 4/3 of the service pressure, then they MUST fail at some point after the 10,000 cycles in a "leak before burst" failure mode. An aluminum cylinder cannot be "under designed. (if so, it will not withstand the 10,000 cycle test) A steel cylinder cannot be "under designed". (if so, it will not withstand the 10,000 cycle test) An aluminum cylinder cannot be "over designed" (if so, it will not fail at all, therefore, it will not acheive the mandatory LBB failure mode after 10,000 cycles). A steel cylinder cannot be "over designed" (if so, it will not fail at all, therefore, it will not achieve the mandatory LBB failure mode after 10,000 cycles).

I am not discussing the merits of overfilling or not overfilling any particular cylinder. I am simply saying that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE CYLINDER IS MADE OF, it is equally safe (or unsafe) to overfill a scuba cylinder.

Another Note: The business about overfilling 10% for the first year, and not on subsequent years, and about when you must and must not switch to DIN valves.....well, that is simply the uninformed attempting to inform. If this is your local scuba stores rule, it is THEIR rule....not any kind of industry, CGA, or any other organization.....standard.

Phil Ellis
 
PerroneFord:
I said there was no plus rating for HP steels, you cited the 3180+ fabers which are not counted as HP as far as I know by DOT. Thus the only HP steel tanks I am aware of are the 3442s. Thus my comment holds, that there is no plus system for HP steels.
They don't consider the 3442 "High Pressure" either. 3500 is that benchmark. See my previous post.
 
xiSkiGuy:
They don't consider the 3442 "High Pressure" either. 3500 is that benchmark. See my previous post.

I was told the reason they went with 3442 as a target is because at 3500 psi DOT requires a 300 bar DIN which will not work with the yolk inserts so they kept it just under so they could go 200 bar with the inserts.

Heard this during shop talk so take it with a grain of salt, but it does make sense to me.
 
Does whoever said it was because they wouldn't work with yolk inserts have egg on their face? (Please don't hurt me.)
 
ClayJar:
Does whoever said it was because they wouldn't work with yolk inserts have egg on their face? (Please don't hurt me.)

No, but you can't use a yolk on a 300 bar din, the inserts only work with 200 bar din
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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