over weighting death

[TheRedHead]

Well, sure, anyone can die diving. Frankly, it sounds like a freak accident to me.

 

[The Chairman]

Well, sure, anyone can die diving. Frankly, it sounds like a freak accident to me.

That has been my contention all along. The saddest part is that it touched one of us here, on ScubaBoard.

 

[Thalassamania]

The way in which I usually model diving safety for my students is to describe a set of coordinates where the y-axis is depth, the x-axis is a measure of the risk due to (or reduced by) equipment and the z-axis is a measure of the risk due to

(or reduced by) skill. The safety surface is a hyperbolic cone that goes to a radius of zero at the depth at which you are guarateed to die. As long as you can maintain your position entirely inside the cone you will live, but the minute that you or your gear gets outside of the cone you die. So it is critical for you to know how much "wiggle room" you've got and to apply all of your technology and skill to both maximizing the available "wiggle room" and keeping yourself as close as possible to the exact center of the cone. And there's the additional problem that dislocation from the central segment brings into play a positive feedback function that tends to drive you further away at a rate that varies directly with both your current dislocation and depth.

 

[dave4868]

The way in which I usually model diving safety for my students is to describe a set of coordinates where the y-axis is depth, the x-axis is a measure of the risk due to (or reduced by) equipment and the z-axis is a measure of the risk due to

(or reduced by) skill. The safety surface is a hyperbolic cone that goes to a radius of zero at the depth at which you are guarateed to die. As long as you can maintain your position entirely inside the cone you will live, but the minute that you or your gear gets outside of the cone you die. So it is critical for you to know how much "wiggle room" you've got and to apply all of your technology and skill to both maximizing the available "wiggle room" and keeping yourself as close as possible to the exact center of the cone. And there's the additional problem that dislocation from the central segment brings into play a positive feedback function that tends to drive you further away at a rate that varies directly with both your current dislocation and depth.

Preparation is a good thing, but it can lead to hubris.

While your student leans forward and squints at this chart, nodding approvingly, he might burp up a chunk of burrito and choke to death while the newbies and the instructor jostle with each other to be the one to give the Heimlich....

We'd be here saying he should have known not to lean forward on a full stomach, etc.

This lady's unfortunate and fatal surface incident may not have been the result of any misjudgment or mistake on the part of anyone.

A freak accident.

Preparation is good, but so is accepting that a freak accident could happen to anyone.

Dave C

 

[Thalassamania]

Preparation is good, but so is accepting that a freak accident could happen to anyone.

Dave C

Would you accept the concept that the level of freak accident that is required to kill someone by-and-large varies directly with the diver's training and experience?

 

[D_B]

Would you accept the concept that the level of freak accident that is required to kill someone by-and-large varies directly with the diver's training and experience?

maybe, but maybe the level is not the correct word .. maybe better way to put it is the odds are more in your favor of it not killing you varying with the amount of training (I'm thinking that even a small freak thing that pushes an unknown button of yours could end up badly)

 

[The Chairman]

Would you accept the concept that the level of freak accident that is required to kill someone by-and-large varies directly with the diver's training and experience?

No. Therein lies the definition of a "Freak accident". You can reduce the RATE of an incident, but you can not eliminate it. No one is getting out of here alive. You will die, and you probably won't get to determine the conditions of your death.

 

[stevewirl]

in the CMAS rescue course . their are to types of stress that can and will lead to a panick attack .

Physical , which could in this case be the victim trying to fin for the surface or stay afloat .

Pyschological , which can be percieved treats .

always hate to hear of an accident . thoughts with the family

 

[Thalassamania]

maybe, but maybe the level is not the correct word .. maybe better way to put it is the odds are more in your favor of it not killing you varying with the amount of training (I'm thinking that even a small freak thing that pushes an unknown button of yours could end up badly)

How about, "as your level of training rises the odds of encountering a life-threatening 'freak occurance' diminishes?"

Would you accept the concept that the level of freak accident that is required to kill someone by-and-large varies directly with the diver's training and experience?

No. Therein lies the definition of a "Freak accident". You can reduce the RATE of an incident, but you can not eliminate it.

Why "No?" I believe we're saying the same thing.

 

[TheRedHead]

No, "freak" means unexplained, can't be accounted for, in this case. Perhaps she aspirated some water and began choking? That would indicate the mistake of removing one's reg. But that is something we all do from time to time. We don't think we're going to panic and down when we remove our reg to speak to someone on the surface.