Optima Question

[scubanimal]

Did I miss something? The new optima seems worth looking into, and in doing so i saw something that I have a hard time understanding. If I am reading the Optima manual right, the extend air cartridge is only good for two hours, but the Optima is designed for 27 cu ft bottles (13cu optional). Is it just me or does that seem like some big bottles for such a short time?


Another oddity was the reference for time beyond recreational limits.

 

[caveseeker7]

The O2ptima tanks are low pressure 4 ltr tanks, hence the rather large size.
In Europe 3 ltr high pressure tanks are available that fit the Inspiration,
they have 29 cft rather than the 20 cft sold in the US.

The tanks are optional and the buyer has a choice between them and 2 ltr/13 cft
tanks (same size as the Evo and recommended size for the Sport Kiss).
With the smaller tanks you really need to take separate bailout.
With the larger ones you should be fine on dives to around 60/70 ft or so.

As far as the scrubber goes, those questions are nothing new.
I find it odd that the manual has nothing better to say than check Micropore's
website for depths past recreational diving. In my opinion hat's ridiculous.
Even more so as the website doesn't have any further info for O2ptima divers at all.
But hey, not everyone buys the $500 trimix upgrade.

 

[scubanimal]

Thanks Stefan,
I saw that, and since my primary purpose of going to CCR is for depth gain over my dolphin I confess that struck me as odd. But since the unit is selling so well, I figured I must be off somewhere. I find it hard to believe that that many people would jump on the latest tech with out figuring it out.

Even at low pressure that is a large set of tanks for the 'rated' limit of the scrubber. I can understand the Dil given that's your bailout, but O2? unless its good for long deco. But then we're back to the scubber duration.

interesting, sure makes me wonder why so many folks are putting their money down......

 

[Curt Bowen]

Quick Note:

Remember the USA is ruled by Insurance Companies and Attornys.

I would assume limiting the rebreather to recreational limits probably saves the manufacturer ten's of thousands of $ in libility insurance. If you choose to exceed these limits, it is not recommended by the manufacturer, thus your on your own.

As for the extend air, it also has its suggested duration for cold water. Have these durations been doubled, Yes, but it was not recommended by the manufacturer.

I pressently own 3 rebreathers, each has their recommended depth limits and durations. Have I ever exceeded these limits? Not me that would be exceeding the recommended exposure of the unit.

Thanks Stefan,
I saw that, and since my primary purpose of going to CCR is for depth gain over my dolphin I confess that struck me as odd. But since the unit is selling so well, I figured I must be off somewhere. I find it hard to believe that that many people would jump on the latest tech with out figuring it out.

Even at low pressure that is a large set of tanks for the 'rated' limit of the scrubber. I can understand the Dil given that's your bailout, but O2? unless its good for long deco. But then we're back to the scubber duration.

interesting, sure makes me wonder why so many folks are putting their money down......

 

[caveseeker7]

I saw that, and since my primary purpose of going to CCR is for depth gain over my dolphin I confess that struck me as odd.

Me too. The majority of CCR divers I've met and talked with choose CCRs because they dive past recreational limits using expensive He mixes. The Hammerhead was designed for that, the gas supply is there, too bad neither Dive Rite nor Micropore are fully behind the cartridge living up to it.

But since the unit is selling so well, I figured I must be off somewhere. I find it hard to believe that that many people would jump on the latest tech with out figuring it out.

I don't believe that. You're probably just smarter than other people.
The unit looks pretty as far as assembly goes. The Dive Rite bits of the usual Dive Rite quality, which is very good. The Hammerhead is a very popular setpoint controller/deco computer that has sold well as a replacement for MK series units and Inspirations. The price is reasonable considering the configuration and it's available in short order. All good reasons for good sales. I just don't think the scrubber is one of them.

Personaly I think a that 'latest tech' dribble or the unit being "quite possibly the most sophisticated scuba ever developed" is just advertising hype. In my opinion they're blowing smoke up people's heinies. Either that or none of them ever heard of MK-5p, UT240, Infinito or Stealth. Same on Micropore's website. Duration claims there as well as by their trade show crew are quite different from what they'll give you in writing, or what their test results show.

Makes me realize just how much I apreciate Jetsam's no-BS approach to marketing.

Even at low pressure that is a large set of tanks for the 'rated' limit of the scrubber. I can understand the Dil given that's your bailout, but O2? unless its good for long deco. But then we're back to the scubber duration.

Probably has more to do with balance than anything else. It also makes it somewhat more reasonable to add an O2 second stage for OC bailout.

 

[caveseeker7]

Quick Note:

Remember the USA is ruled by Insurance Companies and Attornys.

I would assume limiting the rebreather to recreational limits probably saves the manufacturer ten's of thousands of $ in libility insurance.

I understand that, Curt, and it is a serious decision a company has to make.
But I believe you have to be consequent in whatever decision you make, not be half-arsed about it.

Jetsam was consequent with the Sport Kiss. They wanted a recreational CCR, they designed and build one, and they initially set a recreational depth limit for it. Due to the depth limit some if not all agencies can't use it to train divers for trimix without getting into trouble with their own standards and insurance agencies. Mission acomplished! And acomplished without false hype or promises.

If on the other hand the manufacturing trio sells a rig that has a trimix option the customer can reasonably infer that indeed the unit was designed, build and meant to be used past recreational depth. If the manufacturer accepts training/certification from dive agencies teaching the use of the unit past its design envelope, it can be reasonably inferred that indeed the unit was designed, build and meant to be used that way.

Then again, maybe I'm just unreasonable. My exes seem to think so.

If you choose to exceed these limits, it is not recommended by the manufacturer, thus your on your own.

Don't know if anyone noticed, but there are no unit specifications in that manual. Compare that to other manuals you have. Most state complete specs, operational limits (depth, temps etc) and where applicaple test limits. So the customer has a pretty good idea when they are on their own, and in what regard.

Some people have been going on and on about the amazing test facility that Micropore has, and what a great rig the O2ptima is. If that's the case, why has Micropore been selling scrubber conversions for years without decent test data? Why is there such a discrepancy between website and verbal claims and what they'll give you in writing and make you sign? Why don't those three stand behind the product, test it thoroughly and give it an appropriate rating based on that?

Seems to me "O2ptima owner" means you bought an O2ptima and are on your own.
Just my impressions and opinions, of course.


By the way, if someone noticed that I keep saying trio rather than foursome, I didn't include Juergensen Marine there on purpose. I truly believe Kevin and his people do stand behind the Hammerhead.

 

[ba_hiker]

Another value for the largish cylinders, i believe, is that the provide the bailout capiblity on the standard unit. With the standard unint with in the stated limits they seem to say no additional bail out bottle is required.

Also they mention (on the dive-rite express site) that the o2 bottle is adaquate even with low fill pressures, allowing more use from your o2 source bottle without a transfer pump (haskel or some such).