Revo or Optima?

[mikesz]

Hey everyone

Looking into those two units for my diving. I do a bit of everything in terms of diving - walls, reefs, wrecks at anything down to 55m. Have fair amount of experience and trained to adv nitrox and deco proc. But really looking for warm gas, more bottom time and less deco obligations, ideally on a unit that is solidly built, can take a bit rough treatment, has the least number of weaknesses and can travel.

Here is what I see and I’m looking for honest opinions, not religious war.

revo
+ dual scrubber design - seems like a great solution to minimise CO2 issues
+ SW electronics - rock solid
+ easier dil flush procedure - does not require specific positioning, just flush and let gas out of mouth piece
+ hCCR - can see some benefits to having CMF and also selonoid
- no flood protection - read plenty of accounts. I’d prefer at least some solution there
- revo dream P5/hud - can’t get my head around this. Seems so counter intuitive. Didn’t like the round hud format
- 5 o2 cells - seems like overkill and if the unit floods a big expense
- default harness - didn’t like the setup so I was thinking to replace with something like a transpac or similar, which then adds to cost
- WOB - have heard revo not the best
- cost - probably on the expensive side once configured to my liking
+ compactness/weight - great for travel - would love to revisit Truk or other locations. By default quite negative buoyant so may prove a challenge in a thin wet suit
+ local community - few people diving these locally in Aus
+ local support - my instructor favours the revo

optima
? Scrubber - I like the option of sorb and EAC. Thought I’m not necessarily looking to use the EAC. I wonder if the horizontal orientation could create channeling issues if the unit is packed and then rocked about in car or boat? Generally, I think it’s a good design.
+ SW electronics and Smithers hud - big plus there. Have heard optima is a lot better at maintaining P02 levels smoothly. Dual DiveCAN architecture with easy upgrades.
+ iBov - dive soft bov is a solid solution, and very convenient to manage most of the complex workload
+ compact/weight - like the compactness of the BMCL unit and didn’t think the Al20 tanks were a problem. Though I can see this is a bit different. Overall the weight is really great.
? Hose routing/manifolds - didn’t see this as a problem, but obviously a touch more complex to setup
+ WOB - have heard this is one of the best
+ 4 cells - I like the redundancy with 1-2-3 on the controller and 1-2-4 on the hud. Makes sense.
+ flood protection - has multiple water traps and can clear water out via exhale lung
+ local community - again same here, few people diving optima, revo and JJ’s
+ local support - plenty of support. Unit can be bought and serviced locally a lot quicker than revo
+ package - all in one package just the way I like it, so not additional costs in terms of harness, or SW hud etc
+ cost - seems the overall package is a bit cheaper if I take into account The upgrades to the revo I would like

I’m a technical guy so I have a monster spreadsheet with all RBs compared across 90 odd features, but what I don’t have is any experience on these units. That said, I did do a demo dive on the original optima FX many years ago and liked it then (except the hammerhead electronics - those were shite). I kind of like both units for different reasons but think optima just provides a slightly better balance of features I’m after.

I’d be very happy to hear from anyone about their experience on either of the units to help me add some practical dimensions to my thinking.

thanks in advance
Mike

 

[mikesz]

Forgot to mention - doing a try dive on the optima this weekend. The new BMCL and SW unit, so it will be interesting to experience it in the water. Very excited.

 

[Wibble]

Revo:
- two completely separate electronics systems that aren't sharing cells; Perdix and Nerd are running on separate cables on their own cells
- 5 cells, reduces 'cell doubt' related stress
- 1.3kg (2lb) scrubber as you normally only need to replace one scrubber = cheaper to run as it's half the amount of scrubber than most other units.
- The RMS monitoring system shows when the scrubber active zone moves into the second scrubber; it displays this as hours left.
- 'hybrid' design means less work for the solenoid = less battery use (the solenoid battery is a PP3)
- solid case around the lungs protects them
- case is really easy to mount cylinders, batteries, etc. Have easy-release
- no moving parts (e.g. T-pieces on lungs, dumps, etc.)
- extremely simple gas flow design

The one weakness is it's less resistant to flooding than units with external counterlungs, especially if you dive flat.

Obviously I'm a Revo diver. Nothing within my experience of diving with the unit has changed my mind nor caused me to doubt about my choice.

 

[Superlyte27]

I dove the revo for 4 years. 20 minutes into diving an optima, I sold the revo and never looked back. That was almost 10 years ago.

if nothing else, being able to recover a flooded loop 3000’ in the back of a cave would be all the reason in the world to buy the optima over revo. But then there’s the customer service, work of breathing, ease of obtaining parts and service, the fact that you can call the creator on the phone and ask questions.

seemed like a no-brainer to me

 

[beldridg]

- revo dream P5/hud - can’t get my head around this. Seems so counter intuitive. Didn’t like the round hud format

- 5 o2 cells - seems like overkill and if the unit floods a big expense

- WOB - have heard revo not the best
Mike

I've been diving a rEvo for about four years. Just a few quick notes on a few of the cons:

1. In terms of the rEvo Dream P5/HUD - that is really up to you. I trained on a unit with them but when I ordered mine, I ordered it with a NERD and no Dreams.

2. For cells, again, this is really up to you. I do run mine with 5 cells (3 connected to the Petrel controller and 2 connected to the NERD). You can also run the unit with 3 or 4 cells and some combination of cell splitters depending upon what you are trying to do.

I know a few people who wire a 4th cell into a NERD as a solitary PO2 backup or you can split one of the cells and wire it into the NERD.

I.e., there is an endless amount of configurations based on your budget, desire for redundancy, etc.

3. I've found that the WOB on the rEvo is highly trim dependent. If you are anywhere near horizontal trim, it is great. Due to the way the counter lungs are designed, if you get into a vertical trim, the WOB goes up.

The only thing I don't like about the rEvo is the ADV. I've installed an ADV shutoff on my unit.

Depending upon how your ADV is tuned, it can also exacerbate the WOB issue. If your ADV is tuned to fire easily and you do get into a vertical trim, it will likely fire and add a ton of gas to the loop which is going to only intensify the WOB issue (and kill your PO2 especially if you are ascending on deco). Most rEvo owners I know either install a shutoff, disable it completely, or really de-tune it. Paul R would probably strangle me for mentioning the first two.

Regards,

- brett

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Optima--even better Optima Chest Mount.

 

[Heat Miser]

The rEvo Australian service centre is in Melbourne. www.allaboutscuba.com.au

I'm a rEvo owner, I dove with someone last month, who just qualified (x-over) on the Optima Chest Mount and I have to say his trim looked fantastic in comparison to when he dives a rEvo, however he still felt rEvo was better for deep diving. I would like to give the Optima CM a go one day.

I'm still sub 100 hours of experience, so my views should be considered immature in nature, but I think the rEvo has given me a lot of confidence as a new rebreather pilot, I had zero technical experience prior to buying/training on a rEvo, the life giving O2 CMF, the 2 sorb canisters if ones packed poorly, the electronically separated HUD and dreams and 2 extra O2 cells, even the RMS have all added to my confidence on dives. The light weight is important - getting back onto a boat after a deco dive. So I think it has been an excellent first rebreather for me to learn on.

But I also now know its a bit like buying a new iphone there will be better ones in the future.

 

[stuartv]

I did one try-dive on an O2ptima before I bought my first rEvo. I now have about 100 hours on rEvos. So, this is one more reply from someone that is pretty inexperienced with CCRs. Take it for what it's worth.

When I did the try-dive on the O2ptima, I did not like:

- the front (over the shoulder?) counter lungs. Specifically, I did not like feeling like I had blinders on, blocking my peripheral vision.
- the instructor put 12# of lead on the very top of the unit and I still had to scull my fins constantly to keep my feet up, in a semblance of horizontal trim.

Despite that, I liked the experience of silence in the water enough that I knew I wanted to get a CCR. I just knew (at that time, anyway) that I did not want an O2ptima. I still don't want an O2ptima, but who knows what the future holds....?

I bought a used rEvo III Mini and dived that for over a year. Then I found a used rEvo III Micro for a good deal, bought that, and sold the Mini to a friend. Between the two, I have a bit over 2 years and 100 hours on them.

@Wibble made a point about rEvo flooding. He said its weakness is flood resistance. I want to correct that. It is very flood resistant. It is not flood tolerant. In other words, the design of the rEvo is such that it seems (in my VERY inexperienced view) to be very resistant to flooding. There are only 2 hoses in the breathing loop. With the standard DSV, there are only 2 nuts to put on and tighten. Other units typically have 4 hoses, T pieces, and, so, many more places where an O-ring could leak, for example. Some other units also have exposed counter lungs which, I *think*, are more likely to get a cut or rip in them during a dive than the rEvo counterlungs. It seems to me that the rEvo is probably one of, if not the most, flood RESISTANT units on the market.

What it is not is flood TOLERANT. Meaning, once you flood it, you are not getting the water out during the dive. Everyone talks about the rEvo like it's a 100% negative to the rEvo on anything related to flooding. But, to me, it seems like it's more of a pros and cons situation. It's less likely to flood (a pro), but you can't get the water out if it does (a con). Only you can decide which way to go on that.

I flooded my Micro once. Totally my fault during assembly and checks. It was a slow flood and I completed a 90 minute dive, on the loop the whole time. I didn't realize it was flooding. My only clue, until close to the end, was that it seemed a little harder to breathe than normal. But, even then, I wasn't sure. Towards the end, I rolled onto my side and the salt water got into the sensor tray and 3 of the sensors went whacky. But, the 2 that were only connected to my NERD continued to function perfectly and they, with the NERD and me flying the O2 manually, are what got me out safely.

I don't know any more about the O2ptima than what I already said, but I have several friends diving Megs. I was surprised to learn recently how much weight they have to add to those units. I have been told anywhere from 14 - 18 pounds (diving dry) or something like that. The most weight I have ever added to my rEvo was for cold salt water diving and I had 8#. Most of the time, I don't need to add any weight. At the same time, I have dived it in Utila for a week in just board shorts and a rash guard and it was absolutely NOT so negatively buoyant that it caused me any issues whatsoever. My friends with Megs have told me that they can definitely feel all that extra lead they are pushing around in the water.

I do have my rEvo rigged with a single piece of 2" webbing, Hogarthian style, for the harness. And I have a Nomad XT wing, in place of the standard rEvo wing. I think the shape of the Nomad wing really contributes to keeping the tail up, accounting for why I have never needed to use trim weights on my rEvos and I still have no trouble staying in good trim.

Things I especially like about my rEvo Micro:

- it is so light and compact, I think it is a great choice for flying with. I can fit my Micro in a regular hardside suitcase, with padding, and still have it be under 50#. I have flown with my Mini that way (breathing loop and computers packed separately, to keep it under 50#), and shipped the Mini and the Micro back and forth across the country for service that way. Never had ANYTHING happen to any of them.
- I have the rEvo BOV and it seems to be a good, solid BOV
- the dual scrubber setup - VERY unlikely to have a breakthrough due to channeling, plus using sorb more efficiently
- rMS - it was apparently very fragile when they first introduced rMS, but from what I can tell, they have updated the design over the years and it seems to be quite solid now. And it also really helps use sorb more efficiently. I get about double the dive time out of my sorb that I would with no rMS and, thus, following the factory specs for dumping the sorb.
- the CMF gives me a lot of extra margin for error in terms of time that I have to notice if the solenoid fails. It also substantially reduces battery consumption by the solenoid, since it doesn't have to fire that often.
- the counterlungs on the rEvo Micro are just about the PERFECT size for me and my lungs. I.e. they are only barely more volume than what is Optimal Counterlung Volume for me. I have minimal impact from errors in letting my loop get too full.
- 5 cells means I run the controller and a NERD2 monitor and I have 2 completely independent systems for monitoring my ppO2 and for calculating my deco. My controller and the solenoid could all totally die and my NERD would still be showing me 3 cells (I use a splitter with isolators on 1 cell, so controller and monitor each get readings from 3) and telling me my safe ascent plan.

 

[rddvet]

Personally I'm not a fan of either, but if those are my choices I'd avoid the Revo and go with the Optima. If I was always boat diving, I'd go with the chest mount Optima. You can dive a set of baby doubles or a single tank with it. Just strap it up front and go.
Revo's just got issues, too high of a price, proprietary parts, very expensive repair costs, and now that they're owned by Mares I'd wonder where things are going to go in relation to support.

 

[stuartv]

Personally I'm not a fan of either, but if those are my choices I'd avoid the Revo and go with the Optima. If I was always boat diving, I'd go with the chest mount Optima. You can dive a set of baby doubles or a single tank with it. Just strap it up front and go.
Revo's just got issues, too high of a price, proprietary parts, very expensive repair costs, and now that they're owned by Mares I'd wonder where things are going to go in relation to support.

Since Mares bought them, Dive Gear Express has become a dealer for rEvo parts. And Richard Morton, at Dive-Tronix, has been factory-authorized as a rEvo technician. I had both my units serviced by him for their 10 year overhaul. One was about $500 and the other was a bit over $1000, IIRC, because the previous owner of my Micro got salt water into one of the first stages and let it stay in there for a while, so I had to buy a whole new 1st stage as part of that one.

Seems to me that the knocks for cost, parts availability, hard to get serviced, etc. are yesterday's news.