Opinions on DSAT TecRec courses

[Rainer]

So once you're blitzed at the party and you can't find the designated driver, what are you going to do, walk home and be foot fluff?

You're a riot.

Edit: And of course, you CAN arrange He in Truk. Sure, it's expensive. You can choose to pay for safety and actually remember the dives, or even choose an alternative trip to somewhere that has more reasonably priced He.

So what would you do if you went to Truk or somewhere that they really don't have helium? Sit on the boat and be deck fluff? I CERTAINLY agree that helium has its place but, just like nitrox, you learn to dive without it before you learn to dive with it.....

 

[IDS_Bill]

For a "new" program DSAT adopted the worst practices in gas selection from the older agencies (IANTD, TDI etc), combined them with a laughably horrible example set of skills on their DVD, and matched them all up with a very PADI-like instructor corps (I know a DSAT tech instructor up here teaching students in wetsuits - 48F water, 50m depths on air + deco all in a wetsuit )

All in all there are better gas choices than DSAT provides, better skills demos to learn from and (maybe not universally) better instructors as well. There's really very little to put DSAT at the forefront of technical training or any facet thereof.

I don't think anyone claimed they are at the forefront (except DSAT themselves) - not even me.

I agree with your opinion and it reinforces even more - instructor instructor instructor....

 

[IDS_Bill]

So once you're blitzed at the party and you can't find the designated driver, what are you going to do, walk home and be foot fluff?

You're a riot.

Edit: And of course, you CAN arrange He in Truk. Sure, it's expensive. You can choose to pay for safety and actually remember the dives, or even choose an alternative trip to somewhere that has more reasonably priced He.

Wow - you're really stuck on that analogy aren't you?

Well Rainer, it sounds like you have an extreme problem with narcosis so - yeah - go for the helium at 130. If it is available, I would prefer it too but I dove the SF Maru on air and remember every wonderful minute of it. What's that worth? Nothin' - it just goes to show that everyone is different and you can mitigate the effects of narcosis when needed.

Working our way back to the OP - choose your instructor - THEN your agency.

I'm pulling the rip chord - have fun guys

 

[Blackwood]

So what would you do if you went to Truk or somewhere that they really don't have helium? Sit on the boat and be deck fluff?

I wouldn't get on a boat going to a deep site without first ensuring the proper gases were on board (edit: or without bringing them with me).

Are there situations where I'd go do a deep dive without helium? Maybe. But I don't necessarily think me having gone to 165 feet on air/lean nitrox a handful of times in class will "prepare" me to deal with narcosis.

just like nitrox, you learn to dive without it before you learn to dive with it.....

I'd have no objections to putting BOW students on nitrox.

but I dove the SF Maru on air and remember every wonderful minute of it.

IMO the most dangerous part of narcosis is how it debilitates our capacity to multitask. Can I do one thing while narced? Sure. Can I handle multiple instructor-induced failures while narced? Probably. Can I handle real cascading failures while narced? Not sure, and with the caveat of my "maybe" above, I'll never have to find out.

 

[rjack321]

So what would you do if you went to Truk or somewhere that they really don't have helium? Sit on the boat and be deck fluff? I CERTAINLY agree that helium has its place but, just like nitrox, you learn to dive without it before you learn to dive with it.....

How about the opposite...

What would a DSAT air + nitrox graduate do here? Sit out a classic 150ft airplane dive in Lake Washington? Its 49F with 6-7ft vis on the bottom. The plane is 50yrs old, remarkably well preserved but quite fragile, touching it is neither required nor accepted. Its a free ascent, no "hold onto a rock" to shoot a bag (there are no rocks on the bottom its flat silt more than an arm's length deep). No jersey reels, no dropping bottles etc. Beyond not being "allowed" the right gas choices, DSAT is not modeling the skill set needed for this dive.

We do it with 21/35 btw. I would at least have the choice of how I wish to dive (or not) at someplace like Truk.

 

[JeffG]

Working our way back to the OP - choose your instructor - THEN your agency.

so true. (In an ironic fashion) LOL

 

[DevonDiver]

For a "new" program DSAT adopted the worst practices in gas selection from the older agencies (IANTD, TDI etc), combined them with a laughably horrible example set of skills on their DVD, and matched them all up with a very PADI-like instructor corps (I know a DSAT tech instructor up here teaching students in wetsuits - 48F water, 50m depths on air + deco all in a wetsuit )

All in all there are better gas choices than DSAT provides, better skills demos to learn from and (maybe not universally) better instructors as well. There's really very little to put DSAT at the forefront of technical training or any facet thereof.

Firstly, normoxic trimix is an option for the deeper course dives.

Secondly, He supply is very variable depending on your global location. Yes, of course you could arrange a supply of it anywhere, at a cost....which is fine if you live in the USA and only venture to more remote locations once a year on vacation...or if you are on a heavily sponsored cave project. However, if you live in a 3rd world country and want to get wet and deep more than once a month...then the cost of He becomes a real issue. 50m on air may not be the optimum solution, but it is a fine working solution for most capable and well trained tech divers.

Thirdly, from what I've seen, the majority of DSAT instructors are cross-qualified with one or more other tech agencies. Of course, new instructors are being created all the time - but those are a product of their individual instructors/mentors when it comes to dive 'savvy' and professionalism.

Lastly, I don't see how any agency can be at the 'forefront' of tech diving. The pioneering is done by individuals, not agencies. However, DSAT do have a just claim IMHO to have introduced a robust universal teaching system into the tech market - but that is very different to claiming to have the best system.

 

[rjack321]

Firstly, normoxic trimix is an option for the deeper course dives.

That's the next course.

Lastly, I don't see how any agency can be at the 'forefront' of tech diving. The pioneering is done by individuals, not agencies. However, DSAT do have a just claim IMHO to have introduced a robust universal teaching system into the tech market - but that is very different to claiming to have the best system.

Anyone teaching from a book published in 1990 or knockoffs of materials published almost 20yrs ago... Or not teaching neutral buoyancy from day1, etc. can never be an industry leader in the technical sense. Only in the marketing sense.

 

[Blackwood]

50m on air may not be the optimum solution, but it is a fine working solution

If anything, it's a working concession.


Note: I'm not a dive professional. I'm not an instructor nor do I deign to be. I've never taken place in the construction of course standards and procedures. Don't take my posts in this thread as educated advice to agencies, but rather the thought process that this one educated diver used in determining which training to pursue.

 

[DCBC]

...I would prefer it too but I dove the SF Maru on air and remember every wonderful minute of it. What's that worth? Nothin' - it just goes to show that everyone is different and you can mitigate the effects of narcosis when needed.

Well said. Years ago recreational divers only had air. Divers dove to increasing depths, learning how to cope with narcosis over a period of time.

As a professional diver, I've used air as deep as 250'. I'm not suggesting that people do this, but I can't understand why an "experienced diver" would need helium to make a 150' dive. It would seem that some people have more money to spend on mixed-gas than they have diving experience.

I believe the problem lies when these divers have perceived a requirement to use mixed-gas and when it's not available, they dive with air, without any idea how to cope with narcosis.

The safety of today's diver seems to becoming increasingly dependent upon the technology rather than in-water ability, fitness and diver experience. I suppose that's fine until the technology lets them down.

Taking a couple of weeks of instruction in mixed-gas doesn't make a relatively inexperienced diver competent to dive deeply.