Opinion: Diving without a DM (or instructor, etc.)

[hantzu701]

I think new divers rely on divemasters way too much. While I realize that a DM can helpful with keeping divers away from things that might kill them (eg. poisonous critters, heavy current/surge, etc), it is the responsibility of the individual diver to assess the dive conditions/site, his/her skills as well as his/her buddy's, and to plan the dive and hopefully, dive the plan.

 

[Iruka]

I'm a little curious about doing the last dive in the OW class without an instructor. Was this 'legal' in that certifying organization? The ones I'm familiar with, the instuctor MUST be with the student during the OW course.
On the question about diving without a DM/instructor, take it slow, YOU should know if you're comfortable & reasonably competent in the water. A good guide should be able to add something to the dive experience, at least at a new site, by showing you where the "good stuff" is...but it costs more to have a guide, of course. I'm fortunate working in Guam that nearly 100% of Asian tourists prefer and are willing to pay for a guide, even those with hundreds of dives. And, of course, there are quite a few who really DO need a guide for their own safety, they're just not competent alone. I had a customer yesterday with 20 dives, we did 2 easy dives, but her husband/boyfriend told me she'd need to hold my hand the entire dive. There were only the 2 of them, so this didn't cause any real problems...although it was a hassle writing out fish names on my slate!....and she was pretty, so there was no extra charge. Some of my Japanese divers have told me that they were told "never dive without an instructor," while Americans & Europeans, in general I think, are more interested in developing self sufficiency as soon as they can.

Chris
www.letsdiveguam.com

 

[Bretagne]

while Americans & Europeans, in general I think, are more interested in developing self sufficiency as soon as they can.

Here in France, diving with a club or commercial structure is highly regulated by law. And if you only have the first level of certification, you are not allowed to dive without a dive master (and maximum 4 divers + divemaster). With the second level you are autonomous down to 20m -66 ft-, but under supervision -briefing, choice of diving site...- of an instructor, and you can go to 40m -132 ft- with a dive master (again, no more than 4 divers + divemaster). You need the third level to be completel autonomous, down to 60m.
Of course, diving outside a structure is not regulated.
A huge part of what we learn for 2nd level is how to bring back your buddy to the surface.

 

[svidlano]

Here in France, diving with a club or commercial structure is highly regulated by law. And if you only have the first level of certification, you are not allowed to dive without a dive master (and maximum 4 divers + divemaster). With the second level you are autonomous down to 20m -66 ft-, but under supervision -briefing, choice of diving site...- of an instructor, and you can go to 40m -132 ft- with a dive master (again, no more than 4 divers + divemaster). You need the third level to be completel autonomous, down to 60m.
Of course, diving outside a structure is not regulated.
A huge part of what we learn for 2nd level is how to bring back your buddy to the surface.

60 m!?! Are you really allowed to dive to 60 m on air? In Croatia we have a law forbidding us to dive deeper than 40 m on air.

 

[Kim]

You need the third level to be completel autonomous, down to 60m.

What! So in France you go from supervised diving to deco diving on your own - unsupervised - in one go??!! What tables do you guys use?

 

[Albion]

What! So in France you go from supervised diving to deco diving on your own - unsupervised - in one go??!! What tables do you guys use?

Mad isnt it, i couldnt belive when i heard all this
first step tiny, second step small, third step giant bloody leap.

I think from my third dive after OW i never used a DM other than when diving somewhere unfamiliar and i didnt know what the hell im looking for, then i will stay close to see the critters.

Following the DM can be a bit of a crutch for some people and they find it hard to let go. I have found divers with over 100 dives but never been off on there own. Obviously YOU need to be comfortable with it. Essentially try somewhere shallow not to hard to navigate round the first time if you are not 100%.

 

[Bretagne]

All our dives are considered as deco diving. The tables we use include deco. Tables MN90 (which means French Navy 1990). What is the NDL with your tables?
Mine is :
40m 5'
35m 10'
30m 10'
25m 20'
20m 40'
15m 1h15
12m 2h15

2 dives in a day only (exept twice a week, when you can do a third as night dive if the 2 dives of the day were "light")

What! So in France you go from supervised diving to deco diving on your own - unsupervised - in one go??!!

Supervised diving is still deco diving.
Progression is usually:
-supervised non compulsory stop diving, or supervised short compulsory stop diving
-autonomous at low depth, first no deco because when you are limited to 20m, your air consumption usually prevent you to enter deco for the first dives. Then with the time, once you does not suck air so fast anymore, it begins possible to exced our NDL from few minutes, but it adds only few minutes to the stop. It is a matter of planning, planning deco and air consumption. Now, if there is any problem underwater which obliges us to exced the NDL, we are trained to recompute the deco stops while underwater. As these stops are short in our allowed diving environment, we still have enough air for them (if we respect the procedure we learned).
So we go from no compulsory stop dives to short compulsory short dives progressively (as air consumption improves) while autonomous. At the same time, we also do supervised dives with longer deco and potential narcosis (<40m). Then when we are experienced on both these kind of dives, we can pass the exam for certification on
-complete autonomy.
My club would refuse to present divers for the second or third level without a minimum experience since the previous level.

 

[10X]

I have only done 22 dives and none of them have been without a DM present. However, this is more out of necessity than by choice. I do not have a local dive buddy. My dive buddy lives about a 3 hour drive away and we only get together a couple times a year. We vacation together though and it works out great. Our wives snorkel and we dive. On vacation, we book through a dive operator. But if we're not on vacation, I have to rely on diving on scheduled dives done through my LDS, going 1-2 times a month. I don't see this pattern changing for some time to come, unless I run across a buddy locally. I have only been certified for about a year so perhaps this will happen as I get to know more local divers.

 

[Kim]

All our dives are considered as deco diving. The tables we use include deco. Tables MN90 (which means French Navy 1990). What is the NDL with your tables?
Mine is :
40m 5'
35m 10'
30m 10'
25m 20'
20m 40'
15m 1h15
12m 2h15

My tables are similar to yours - but they stop at 40m (as the table you posted does!) Maybe you made a typo but why did you say 60m? As far as I know all recreational diving is only to 40m (with for instance the PADI advice - less 10%) I totally agree that all dives are deco dives but up to 40m with a correct slow ascent the deco is automatic - assuming you dive within the NDL. As I don't have the table for it I can't see what deco obligation you would incur diving to 60m - so I have no idea wether I'd have enough gas to finish the dive!!! As far as the two dives a day rule goes - wow!!! - I regularly dive 3 or 4 tanks a day - starting with the deepest dive as the first - progressively getting lighter - and all within NDL limits - surface intervals get longer sure - but that's what nitrox is for, no?? I'm not knocking you - some of how you describe your training sounds really very good - but some of it leaves me gasping!!!

p.s. Then I suppose for you the idea that someone with only 5 dives (Open Water) is allowed to dive unsupervised to 18m (or is it 17??) in similar water conditions to where they were trained must seem like lunacy!?

 

[pasley]

We did two dives on the boat for certification (foloowing two beach dives) and I did the third dive of the day on my own with other non-student divers on the boat. After that, I sought out experienced divers to buddy with and did beach dives or boat dives (as the $$ allowed).

But the key here is to dive within your experience and comfort zone. At present I am averaging 3.3 dives per month (116 since 201 and counting). Dive safe and dive often.