Open Water Certifications – Cold vs Warm

[DCBC]

...Still, never let a thread get in the way of having a pop at PADI

Do you not think that the content of a diver training program reflects upon the competence of those that successfully complete it?

Do you feel so insecure about your training Agency that you interpret anyone quoting your Agencies Policies as being critical?

---------- Post added June 13th, 2013 at 09:43 AM ----------

The point is that standards specifically state that instructors must account for local conditions in their courses. Embellishing and adding information (for e.g. tide tables when local conditions warrant) is entirely within the scope of the standards.

You state "Standards specifically state".. to "embellish and add information." Please quote PADI Standards specifically where you can add anything to the training program and where you are allowed to add a test and make this a requirement for certification. Where you are authorized to change the water evaluation? Explain how this is to be understood in context with the Membership Agreement statement "I also will not deviate from the applicable standards when representing myself as a PADI Member". Please feel free to use the other thread that I mentioned, if you feel it inappropriate here.

 

[elan]

IMHO it all boils down to your experience. It would be wrong to assume that cold water diving experience will give you superiority in all diving conditions. certifying in warm water has an edge imho as you do not waster your time for fighting with equipment and what i have seen in the classes here they do not give enough information about cold water and equipment in the class anyways.
so in warm water you have more time to practice without thinking how many more minutes you can handle this cold.

 

[DevonDiver]

so in warm water you have more time to practice without thinking how many more minutes you can handle this cold.

Very true.

I learned to dive in the UK. Dives were rarely longer than 20mins... hypothermia was a risk.

Cold water: 4x 20 mins = 80 mins in-water training time.

I teach in the tropics. Dives are rarely shorter than 50 mins.... air consumption is the only limitation (assuming multi-level/shallow option).

Warm water: 4x 50 mins = 200 mins in-water training time.

In general, I think the length of in-water training time has a direct correlation on the development of student confidence and competence.

 

[DCBC]

In general, I think the length of in-water training time has a direct correlation on the development of student confidence and competence.

I agree Andy. That's why many Instructors like to require more dives and a longer training program before certification takes place.

 

[DevonDiver]

I agree Andy. That's why many Instructors like to require more dives and a longer training program before certification takes place.

It'd be nice if the concept of minimum 'in-water practice time' (minimum minutes/hours, rather than dive count) was more prevalent amongst the bigger certification agencies...

 

[Quero]

You state "Standards specifically state".. to "embellish and add information." Please quote PADI Standards specifically where you can add anything to the training program and where you are allowed to add a test and make this a requirement for certification. Where you are authorized to change the water evaluation? Explain how this is to be understood in context with the Membership Agreement statement "I also will not deviate from the applicable standards when representing myself as a PADI Member". Please feel free to use the other thread that I mentioned, if you feel it inappropriate here.

As is your usual strategy, you are trying to determine the parameters for the discussion. The question of whether an instructor can write a test question and make it a requirement for certification is not central to the issue, and therefore it's an invalid focus for the discussion. It's just another red herring because the exams are not the primary means of assessment nor the pivotal basis on which students are awarded their certifications. Therefore I will decline to participate according to the parameters you have set. And because it is unacceptable to allow you to drag yet another thread entirely off topic in order to try to stick it to PADI, I will limit myself to pointing out a post I wrote in response to these same sorts of questions just a couple of months ago.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/q-...encies/449828-padi-vs-naui-5.html#post6740774

 

[DCBC]

It'd be nice if the concept of minimum 'in-water practice time' (minimum minutes/hours, rather than dive count) was more prevalent amongst the bigger certification agencies...

This is the way it use to be (NAUI 44 hours, CMAS 45 hours, PADI 27 hours), with added dives and content left at the Instructor's discretion.

 

[Quero]

Very true.

I learned to dive in the UK. Dives were rarely longer than 20mins... hypothermia was a risk.

Cold water: 4x 20 mins = 80 mins in-water training time.

I teach in the tropics. Dives are rarely shorter than 50 mins.... air consumption is the only limitation (assuming multi-level/shallow option).

Warm water: 4x 50 mins = 200 mins in-water training time.

In general, I think the length of in-water training time has a direct correlation on the development of student confidence and competence.

Exactly. This reinforces what I wrote in post #10

I agree completely that a lot of pool time makes for a quicker skills demo in open water and therefore provides more time for the tour, but if you've got a class of just four, for example, and each one takes five minutes to demo the various skills, that's already 20 minutes out of maybe a 30-35 minute total dive, leaving just 10-15 minutes for a tour, forty to sixty minutes touring for the entire course. My course would provide 120-160 minutes of tour time in open water. Pool work just cannot substitute for a lack of the tour portion of the dive in terms of diver development, unfortunately.

 

[rhwestfall]

time to unsubscribe (post #34 has come to fruition)......

 

[DevonDiver]

This is the way it use to be ....

"In-Water".

Training hours is fine. I think in-water time should be measurable too...

I like that in other agencies... you know where you stand.