Open water + advanced in one go?

[Patrick_]

So almost in the same position as you a short while ago. Booked a trip to CocoView on Roatan with friends to force myself to finally get around to doing something I always wanted to try. Waited until a month before leaving then got OW at one dive shop in 2 weekends and AOW/nitrox at another shop next weekend because of the scheduling. Had a slight panic episode at 80 feet on my deep dive in a spring which was basically a glorified well but other than that training went fine and I was probably one of the better students in both my classes except I drank air like the reg was freeflowing. I also KNEW I was completely clueless at that point and was very happy I was going with a group of experienced divers including 2 instructors.

I learned a ton in 21 dives in 5 days at CocoView and skills improved greatly and came back with a normal SAC rate and 1/3 the weight I dove with originally. Everyone was amazed at my improvement given I had been diving only about a month.

Then discovered Scubaboard and learned that I even knew less than I suspected. I plan on eventually doing fundies, cave & tech but am taking my time and just trying to get in some seasoning first. I'm lucky in that I live in Florida and diving is easy and readily available. I'm very comfortable in the water but constantly thinking about what it is I don't know that I don't know.

What would I do differently ... probably nothing. Some will find the following comments contentious but I've thought about them quite a bit.

Initial training including AOW is pretty much worthless. If you are generally comfortable in the water and athletic you will fly through them. Most of what you are taught will fly right by you as you are going wow this is really cool I'm underwater oh yeah time to do that mask clear thingie. Really little is taught about diving theory/physiology or even equipment considerations and tests and skills are almost impossible to fail. You will probably come out of it remembering holding your breath is a really bad thing ... that might be it. I'm not blaming my instructors or the agencies it is what it is and isn't going to change anytime soon. There are a ton of threads here on scubaboard debating this and why it is. It's not my point to start that debate again here.

There are longer and more comprehensive courses and if you had the time and inclination I would say explore them but your situation sounds similar to mine.

So get the training over with before you go including Nitrox/AOW if you can. Why? So you can enjoy Honduras. If Utila is anything like Roatan there are few better places to practice those skills you just sort of acquired while at the same time seeing some really cool things underwater. Make sure you are diving with experienced people and make sure they know you are brand new and ask and listen for advice. It's unlikely you will do something dumb enough to get hurt. Face it the vast majority of people trained go exactly the same route good or bad. Go slowly don't do anything you are not comfortable with. If you feel the need hire a DM/Instructor for some 1:1 attention but enjoy the coral and the fishies they are really cool. In the process you will actually find out if diving is for you and have some fun and improve quickly not under the pressure and time constraints of a class situation.

If diving is for you when you come back now start educating yourself. Most of what you read here or other places just really won't gell until you have that initial experience under your belt. As you learn more you will be surprised how little you learned initially even if it was 'taught' to you though most of it just wasn't. It's probably most dangerous in your diving career if you ever reach that point you actually think you have the answers and know exactly what it is you are doing. Go slowly and find good mentors but at least now you will know it is worth investment time to really get to know what it is your doing. Get out and dive and very gradually build your experience. If your going to be the resort diver who dives once a year nothing wrong with that but at least get to the local pool and do some refresher training before that next trip.

I have about 35 dives including 100ft wreck and cavern which means I've done basically nothing in reality. So take my advice for what it is worth and what you paid for it.

my .02

Edit: sorry didn't catch you were in the UK. Drysuit yeah don't recommend intially learning that way and especially pointless for a first trip to Honduras. If you can do all your pool skills and tests in the UK before going and get a referal for the checkout dives in Honduras.

 

[underwaterfrank]

It never hurts to learn and understand the theory aspects of any level of scuba certification.
However, if you carry a more advanced certifcation on paper...then other divers will start to rely not only on your theoretical knowledge but also on your "experience"
Personally, if I was your dive buddy, I'd rather know you had 100 actual dives on your log than a few dives and a pile of certificates.
My advice would be, study the theory for advanced or even further, but clock-up some dives and learn to walk before you start running. Generally I think you will be more respected as a real diver.

 

[stargost]

If you have opportunities to dive with other people, you may not rush to AOW, but if not, then the extra 5 dives will be very useful to get little more practice before enjoying a dive vacation.
If Padi (not sure if you go with others) do ask the instructor to start with the Peak performance bouyancy 'speciality', as the exercises in this 30-45min dive will be worth the AOW almost by itself.
The deep dive will also show you (and under supervision) how fast you are burning your air at 100ft, which is fun, and a very good lesson to realize that the AOW will make you even humbler than when you passed your OW (after 2.5 days, not 10 - duh!).

So I'm in favor of getting the AOW just after the OW. It just tells you more about how far you are from advance

Also to get even better prepared (should be pre-requisit for AOW course), read a few good diving books. Not only the AOW manual, but if padi, the encyclopedia of diving, and some others recommended in this forum - like 'divers down' (uh, maybe not this one, it's too scary ).

Finally, spend twice as many hours you have in diving going through this forum, get all the advices you can grab, from the constructive ones to the one with heavy sarcasms, and if you can understand all the Hitler and AOW video, then you are good to go

 

[victor]

Pixiefish
If you can I would strongly recommend that you do your open water before going to South America.
You will get so much more out of your warm water diving.

If you can crack buoyancy and air consumption in the UK with a thick wetsuit then it will be so much easier when you get to the Caribean.

Once you have these 2 issues under your belt then you are ready for AOW.

 

[HowardE]

I know I'm echoing others, but I'd say - do your AOW right away. It makes you continue your dive education. Think of AOW as your diver's license, and OW as a learners permit. IOW. Open Water teaches you about diving, and you get to dive a little. AOW teaches you more about becoming your own diver.

Doing it sooner rather than later, lets you learn more from AOW then say someone like my case, where I didn't do my AOW training until I already had more than 50 dives. For me, at that time, getting my AOW card, was just me getting a card, and not learning how to navigate, dive to 100(ish) feet, drift dive, boat dive, night dive, etc. Because I had already done all of those things, many times.

AOW is a misnomer - it should be called OWII (OW2) but then people might not buy as many classes? AOW doesn't make you advanced, it just advances you along to becoming a better diver.

 

[pixiefish]

Ok, so the general message seems to be - don't run before you can walk, and get a good understanding of the physics & physiology of it all too. Cool. I have a professional understanding of normal physiology anyway so there's a start...will keep reading!

I think my initial impression was that the AOW aimed to leave you with the skills of the dives you took in it......but really it seems it just brushes the surface of those areas of diving and lets you have a go at one dive under supervision - hmm hardly seems enough! And I get the message that I won't learn much at all if I can't control my buoyancy and am getting through air too fast anyway. However more teaching and more supervised dives can only be a good thing; as long as you recognise your limitations.

So - my plan for the trip will be to book the Open Water, after that, to see the lie of the land, availability of buddies, how well I'm doing with air consumption & buoyancy.

Doing anything in the UK before departure is not an option - I don't have the time, plus it is very expensive and would bite into my trip budget. I'm the opposite way round to most people - once on my trip, I have no time pressure, I could stay on Utila for a month if I really wanted to.

 

[rstofer]

There are 5 supervised dives in AOW. Peak Performance Buoyancy is usually one of them. Now, taught well, this can be a very important dive. You should get to a point where you can maintain buoyancy at any depth and in any position. Weighting will be corrected and placement will set up your trim. If you have studied the material in advance, read what you can find on the subject, this will be a very helpful dive. Try to get it first in the sequence!

The Search & Recovery and Navigation dives are useful but again, you should have practiced navigation on land before you ever got to the class. You need to be able to use your compass well and you need to be able to count kicks. No big deal. We also learned about 'natural' navigation: noting landmarks around you. We also learned to turn shells upside down to mark the trail - kind of like breadcrumbs. S&R just teaches you to navigate in a pattern while searching for something. Then there should be a bit about lifting things. How to inflate a lift bag, don't get UNDER the thing you are lifting, etc.

The other 2 dives are usually Deep and, perhaps, Boat. Well, Boat is useless. Stand up, buckle up, shuffle to the door. Jump out the back and yell 'Airborne!'. Something like that... Use that dive to perfect your buoyancy. Maybe you can work it out so that the boat dive is also 'deep'.

Deep will give you a greater understanding about just how fast you will be slurping air at depth. If you learn nothing else, you will learn to watch your SPG like a hawk! It is unlikely that you will learn anything about air management. You can search around SB for threads related to 'rock bottom' and 'turn point'. There are very sophisticated ways to calculate how much air you need at any point in a dive. Remember, your air supply should always be adequate to get both you AND your buddy to the surface including any required deco or safety stops. There should also be a demonstration of the effect of depth on color. A squished water bottle is also a popular exhibit.

Go buy every book you can find about diving. Don't limit yourself to just the agency publications. Alibris.com has a lot of used books. The more you know the better the classes will be. This is because you will already know what you should be being taught. I found the BSAC manual to be quite helpful before I ever started the NAUI program. See if you can find a copy of the OLD "The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving". This was THE original training manual. It spends a lot of time on double hose regulators and such but what it really describes is the original training programs and requirements.

Remember: Recon - know before you go!

Richard

 

[TSandM]

Nothing really teaches you to dive like diving . . . but if you're the curious sort and want to spend some time with some materials to prepare, you might want to pick up a copy of the PADI Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving. It's a surprisingly useful book. The other thing you might want to do is watch some of the 5thD-X videos on YouTube, to get an idea of what good diving technique looks like.

Nothing about AOW except the required deep dive forces you out of an appropriate setting for a new diver. Getting an opportunity, for example, to do your first night dive with an instructor can be very reassuring (and night dives are FUN!)

The only thing that is really important is that, when you have finished AOW, you don't regard yourself as any kind of "advanced" diver, and that you continue to be prudent and careful. Where people get into trouble is by assuming that, having done the Deep dive, they are now fine to go do deep diving . . . then they have buoyancy issues or forget to check their gas, and we have an accident.

 

[rstofer]

Ah, yes, the night dive! I had done many but my 100th dive was a night dive in rather strong current. I blew an o-ring at about 60' that night. The surface swim was ugly!

I always thought that I had messed up mounting my reg and that around 100 dives is where people start getting the idea that they have diving on autopilot. This was my comeuppance.

A very useful object lesson! In retrospect, I probably didn't make a mistake. It was probably just a bad o-ring. Still, a lesson ...

Richard

 

[muddiver]

I think, from the reading I've done so far, that I'm going to choose NAUI, possibly with Alton's Dive Centre having read various recommendations and experiences.

If I was to complete the Open Water, and then just stay on after that doing more dives but not the Advanced course, (for about the same price there's 10 dive deals, although I'm not sure if that's guided or what), how different experience-wise would that be? At the moment I am very nervous of the idea of diving independently; but I haven't done it yet, that may well change!

I don't really know yet what I want to get out of it; at the moment it's about not passing up the chance to learn a new skill, the wildlife aspect really appeals, as does the idea of exploring wrecks.

Ok, you said the magic acronym. I would go with the other folks and say that you should find a buddy that is at the same level of experience as you are and go do some diving. Work as a team to expand you experience and then discuss taking the AOW together. If you plan to jet off to South America before you can get more experience, buy the SDI Solo Diver course manual and just read it so that if you end up with an "insta-buddy" on some boat trip, you will have some knowledge of how to be self suffecient.

Edit: I reccomend that you pull the Navy Diving Manual down from the Navy's Supervisor of Salvage web site http://www.supsalv.org/00c3_publications.asp?destPage=00c3&pageId=3.9 (It is the eighth item on the list) and read the Physiology, Physics and Diving Medicine sections. It will give you more information than any SCUBA class will. Ignore the rest of the manual because it will just be confusing when you get into your basic SCUBA class.