One killer removed from the water, another escapes
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OP
On a more serious note, I didn't mention what happened to my friend Ross. He is an experienced wreck diver who dives this area 30-40 times per year, and he nearly drowned yesterday.
"I can't live with myself without saying something here because I'm the one who opened this can of worms by finding the net in the first place and taking others out there to try to fix it. Here's my response to Kurt.
BOTTOM LINE:
Rec divers - stay away from the net or be ready to die.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Kurt,
The net is far too large for us to swim it, but based on our SONAR work we believe that it runs from the rock pile to a black flag 1/4 mile away. This is a REALLY BIG net, and while I'm no expert on large commercial fishing gear, I don't think anyone can work with this thing unless they have a large commercial fishing boat with the big spool on the back.
This thing is really dangerous and I'm worried that it's going to kill someone. I've dove it 3 times now and was feeling pretty cocky about my underwater skills until I found myself solo and tangled it in at the end of a dive watching my deco obligation go up and air rapidly go down. It got all around my tank valve & first stange. Through several minutes of hacking away at it and swimming like hell, I managed to cut myself free, but just barely. By the time I got free I had built a significant deco obligation and had lost my camera (Phil later recovered my cam). There were times where I really felt like I wasn't going to make it. I haven't been talking about this on the web for the obvious reasons, but I'm still shaking from yesterday and I'm terrified that someone else will find themselves in the same situation. I've decided to post this on diver.net and the other places that Phil has been discussing the net in hopes that no one else gets in trouble. ***** it, people can flame me all they want, at least they’ll be comfortably behind their computer and not sitting in a net at 95fsw.
Solo divers on open circuit, as I almost demonstrated, can easily wind up like the sea lions. It's a long shot, but even a good buddy team could possibly get stuck at the same time. To do it right, that net should be worked on by commercial guys on surface supplied air with communication systems, or with some other such commercial diving approach that I don't even know about. I’m the first to admit that I know about as much about brain surgery as I do about the best way to safely accomplish this task.
I am not a safety nazi. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I more risk tolerant than most. I got a new respect for these nets yesterday. If you work on this thing, please don't take rec divers with you and please do it in a way where everyone comes back. In a way it's good for people to see the photos so they have an idea about what these nets do, but I'm already feeling bad about taking others out there and putting these pics on the web. (I thought it was just a small section of net or I would have never gone yesterday. The first time I dove it the vis was really bad and I turned around as soon as I got my anchor out of it.)
There have been far too many offers from rec divers to help clean it up. This isn't the place for rec divers any more than fitting pipes on an offshore oil rig in 300fsw would be for rec divers.
If this were a little 20' x 50' section of net, I would be all for grass roots action to clean it up but this is not the case."
"I can't live with myself without saying something here because I'm the one who opened this can of worms by finding the net in the first place and taking others out there to try to fix it. Here's my response to Kurt.
BOTTOM LINE:
Rec divers - stay away from the net or be ready to die.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Kurt,
The net is far too large for us to swim it, but based on our SONAR work we believe that it runs from the rock pile to a black flag 1/4 mile away. This is a REALLY BIG net, and while I'm no expert on large commercial fishing gear, I don't think anyone can work with this thing unless they have a large commercial fishing boat with the big spool on the back.
This thing is really dangerous and I'm worried that it's going to kill someone. I've dove it 3 times now and was feeling pretty cocky about my underwater skills until I found myself solo and tangled it in at the end of a dive watching my deco obligation go up and air rapidly go down. It got all around my tank valve & first stange. Through several minutes of hacking away at it and swimming like hell, I managed to cut myself free, but just barely. By the time I got free I had built a significant deco obligation and had lost my camera (Phil later recovered my cam). There were times where I really felt like I wasn't going to make it. I haven't been talking about this on the web for the obvious reasons, but I'm still shaking from yesterday and I'm terrified that someone else will find themselves in the same situation. I've decided to post this on diver.net and the other places that Phil has been discussing the net in hopes that no one else gets in trouble. ***** it, people can flame me all they want, at least they’ll be comfortably behind their computer and not sitting in a net at 95fsw.
Solo divers on open circuit, as I almost demonstrated, can easily wind up like the sea lions. It's a long shot, but even a good buddy team could possibly get stuck at the same time. To do it right, that net should be worked on by commercial guys on surface supplied air with communication systems, or with some other such commercial diving approach that I don't even know about. I’m the first to admit that I know about as much about brain surgery as I do about the best way to safely accomplish this task.
I am not a safety nazi. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I more risk tolerant than most. I got a new respect for these nets yesterday. If you work on this thing, please don't take rec divers with you and please do it in a way where everyone comes back. In a way it's good for people to see the photos so they have an idea about what these nets do, but I'm already feeling bad about taking others out there and putting these pics on the web. (I thought it was just a small section of net or I would have never gone yesterday. The first time I dove it the vis was really bad and I turned around as soon as I got my anchor out of it.)
There have been far too many offers from rec divers to help clean it up. This isn't the place for rec divers any more than fitting pipes on an offshore oil rig in 300fsw would be for rec divers.
If this were a little 20' x 50' section of net, I would be all for grass roots action to clean it up but this is not the case."
ArcticDiver
Contributor
Seems to me this is one of those Great Opportunities that come along once in awhile when the stars are in alignment.
The hazard has been clearly identified.
Best guess is that the hazard is not limited to just one ocean area. These killers are most everywhere fishing is done.
There are steps to getting the killers out of the water:
1>Locating them. A job for everyone. You don't even need to be a diver for some of the nets.
2>Publishing their locations so attention can be directed their way. NetDoc has said he has plenty of room on SB to do that.
3>Assessing how to get the nets either out of the water or disabled. That is very location dependent. But, there are many qualified volunteers who would love to do this.
4>Net removal/disabling. This might be by qualified volunteers. Or, it might be cajoling or buying professional services. With so many fishing vessels under used this may not be as expensive as one would think.
Then there is Prevention. Can we have a place devoted to sharing information so we can lobby for sane and sensible international laws to stop the nets in the first place? In some cases what is needed is better enforcement of current laws. We can work on that too. Lots of us "troublemakers" around.
I can think of very few things that would have a greater long term impact on our species and others than stopping unnecessary killing of the ocean's creatures.
The hazard has been clearly identified.
Best guess is that the hazard is not limited to just one ocean area. These killers are most everywhere fishing is done.
There are steps to getting the killers out of the water:
1>Locating them. A job for everyone. You don't even need to be a diver for some of the nets.
2>Publishing their locations so attention can be directed their way. NetDoc has said he has plenty of room on SB to do that.
3>Assessing how to get the nets either out of the water or disabled. That is very location dependent. But, there are many qualified volunteers who would love to do this.
4>Net removal/disabling. This might be by qualified volunteers. Or, it might be cajoling or buying professional services. With so many fishing vessels under used this may not be as expensive as one would think.
Then there is Prevention. Can we have a place devoted to sharing information so we can lobby for sane and sensible international laws to stop the nets in the first place? In some cases what is needed is better enforcement of current laws. We can work on that too. Lots of us "troublemakers" around.
I can think of very few things that would have a greater long term impact on our species and others than stopping unnecessary killing of the ocean's creatures.
DivingPrincessE
Contributor
Wow, what sad pictures. I'm glad the net is being removed.
Codyjp
Contributor
Is there a chance to organize a group to all get together and finish with the cleanup of this thing? Can you please post specifics and maybe work on putting out some info on getting this taken care of?
Ross-O
Registered
Cody & fellow divers,
I can't say this strongly enough - This net is too big and too dangerous for rec divers. At a bare minimum it is 30-40 ft wide and over 200 ft long. It weighs thousands of lbs. I suspect that it is 30-40 ft wide and 1250 ft long based on metering a black flag marker 1/4 mile away. I may even be twice that long as there was a second flag even further away. It's sitting in 95fsw and the vis is usually bad out there.
PLEASE read my response to Ocean Defenders again.
DFG is currently looking into fixing the situation. It has enough publicity now that it'll get taken care of. Learn from my lesson - don't be too eager to dive these things. If you must do it, don't be solo - not even for 20 seconds. Have your buddy within arm's reach 100% of the time.
I got lucky.
Ross
I can't say this strongly enough - This net is too big and too dangerous for rec divers. At a bare minimum it is 30-40 ft wide and over 200 ft long. It weighs thousands of lbs. I suspect that it is 30-40 ft wide and 1250 ft long based on metering a black flag marker 1/4 mile away. I may even be twice that long as there was a second flag even further away. It's sitting in 95fsw and the vis is usually bad out there.
PLEASE read my response to Ocean Defenders again.
DFG is currently looking into fixing the situation. It has enough publicity now that it'll get taken care of. Learn from my lesson - don't be too eager to dive these things. If you must do it, don't be solo - not even for 20 seconds. Have your buddy within arm's reach 100% of the time.
I got lucky.
Ross
Phil,
Thanks for bringing this to light. Horrible. The pictures are graphic, but need to be to convey how bad this is.
I'd love to help and since diving near this monstrosity is out of the question, I donated to ODA (Ocean Defenders Alliance), through PayPal.
I hope it helps... maybe others would like to follow suit...
Thanks for bringing this to light. Horrible. The pictures are graphic, but need to be to convey how bad this is.
I'd love to help and since diving near this monstrosity is out of the question, I donated to ODA (Ocean Defenders Alliance), through PayPal.
I hope it helps... maybe others would like to follow suit...
Codyjp
Contributor
Ross, glad to hear this is getting worked out. It is important that divers don't bite off more than the can chew with this type of thing for sure. Dead divers aren't much help for anything. I didn't realize it was so big.
Is there any way that your typical rec diver can provide any type of financial or surface support to help this situation?
Kevin, thanks for the link I will check it out.
Is there any way that your typical rec diver can provide any type of financial or surface support to help this situation?
Kevin, thanks for the link I will check it out.
TeqP
Contributor
Just to give an update from Kurt of Ocean Defenders Alliance, he has not heard back from the DFG. When he spoke with them they were supposed to take their boat and do a surveilance of the situation. Kurt said he has left voicemails with them. After talking with Ross and Phil, Kurt felt that this gill net was too big for his operation to handle based on the estimate of size given.
On a side not, Kevin (Kevfin), Kurt wanted to express his thanks for your donation, if he hasn't already thanked you. Greatly appreciated.
Phil
On a side not, Kevin (Kevfin), Kurt wanted to express his thanks for your donation, if he hasn't already thanked you. Greatly appreciated.
Phil
Ross,
I am glad you made it out :11:
I totally agree with you; this is for professionals and not for recreational divers
But, as I mentioned on the other board, I think we should shoot some video and use it to "educate" the public on the danger and destruction of those nets.
Regards,
I_AM
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