On no island like Bonaire

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Very good post Mike. Thanks for it. Whether I fully agree with the statements or not aside, this is a well thought out and helpful post.



Up until only recently any negative post about crime on Bonaire got immediately deleted on Bonaire Talk. How that is classified "more realistic" is beyond me. However, I guarantee if you got rid of a couple individuals from these Bonaire threads, the information would pass freely and much more accurately. A couple fanatics simply muddy up the threads with total BS and stop all flow of useful information. Most people on SB are NOT trying to paint a rose on every street corner of Bonaire.....just to shut certain individuals up so that a normal conversation can happen.

I agree with you on this... perhaps not the wording, but the intent...

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Thank you! Finally a reasonable response discussing the crime problem. I'd still like to see some quantifying done using actual numbers instead of terms like "many" and "some" to put things in the proper perspective, but this is a good start.

Agreed!

 

[Mike]

Sorry boys, but I gotta disagree. All my posts have been reasonable in regard to discussing the crime problem, you all just don't like the answers, and you don't like it when your absurdity gets a light shined on it.

And if you guys want actual numbers then you produce some reliable statistics and I'll put them in a spread sheet for you, but part of the whole problem is numbers don't exist.

As I said this is typical buisness as usual for most vacation areas in 3rd world countries. I've been in Puerto Vallarta while 3 divers died and there was almost zero news of it. We would never have known about it had we not seen the federales at the site. I've been in Cozumel and found about about a death after the fact... and the list goes on and on.

Cover up of anything negative or just plain black out of any information is very typical... and hence why all you white washers of Bonaire get such a hard time.

I'd think that anybody who loves Bonaire would want the problems to be solved and the only way that is going to happen is with facing the truth and getting the information out, facing facts and admiting there is a problme, instead of all this pretending going on all the time.

You get the issue out there and something happens, you keep pretending it's not a problem and it's just another day in paradise where nothing bad happens until it happens to you and then you ask around and find out it's been going on forever, then you ask why does nobody know about it? and then the circle just keeps going round and round and round. Pretty soon it's the bigger fool syndrome in full effect.

That's why I say stop the BS, first step is admiting there is a problem, full disclosure and no white washing, only after that can solutions be possible.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

The difference is that this post http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5142442-post159.html WAS reasonable vs. prior posts that use examples and pictures that are not actual and not representative to the subject.

None of the reasonable people on this thread, nor most other threads concerning Bonaire are attempting to spread misinformation... BUT, there IS a difference between people who are giving actual experience and people who are giving possibilities such as swinging cinder blocks and misrepresentation of pictures claiming them to be "actual pictures from Bonaire... just kidding"...

When information is given in an honest format and with experience it should not be trivialized as being "bias" because it is from someone who lives there or owns a business there... Guess what? The only honest answers to come out of Bonaire will be from people who live there, own a business there, or have experience there. Yet, these people are pushed away on this board as people spewing propaganda. No one will ever get true answers if this allowed to continue...

 

[Mike]

You can cry all you want buddy, just cause you don't get it, can't follow along, or it's over your head doesn't mean I have to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator.

Um Kay?

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

You can cry all you want buddy, just cause you don't get it, can't follow along, or it's over your head doesn't mean I have to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator.

Um Kay?

Here's the problem... I get it just fine, but you keep trying to take my engineering degree for granted... Perhaps I should let my son with his psychology degree explain it to you... OR... just perhaps my daughter with her teaching degree can teach it to you...

Either way "scuba Joe" you have attempted to degrade me for the last time... You answered a question on this thread with an honest and unbiased response... once. You were "Thank"ed and congratulated for that response. It was a response worth the praise... I am sorry you cannot accept that praise for it's unbiased thanks and be humble, or accepting...

 

[DiverVince]

Well I for one am fairly disgusted with this thread. I do like to post and share my knowledge about Bonaire with others but to be vilified by some (especially those who have spent so little time on the island that they refuseto even provide their stats regarding experience on the island) because I'm involved with tourism and own property is really just sophomoric and indicative of their mindset.

There are other venues to get good information about Bonaire & I would suggest to those who want unbiased information to seek them out. And YES, for the thousandth time, I own property on the island and have been visiting it (and many others) for almost 25 years. If you think this makes me biased and that I don't know what I'm talking about, or "whitewash" really, so be it. I can say that all of our guests have reported wonderful fantastic stays on the island (we personally call everyone for their input) and they all clamor to return.

A few words to those folks who have no experience on the island and looking for bona fide information. Be careful what you read here and take it with a grain of (Bonairean) salt, because many posters have so little knowledge of what they pontificate about under the guise of trying to get the facts out about Bonaire that's it's pathetic that they try and pawn themselves off as having information about the island.

And now for the inevitable ad hominum "responses"..blah blah blah blah ad infinitum..

 

[pilot fish]

Honesty is, as they say, the best policy. If you really want change, then you have to demand it, ask for it, take steps to bring it about and admit that things NEED to be changed. The more you keep the crime on Bonaire secret, and foist the Bonaire is a sleepy dive Paradise baloney on us, the longer the problem will exist, as it has for at least the last decade that I know of.

Sorry boys, but I gotta disagree. All my posts have been reasonable in regard to discussing the crime problem, you all just don't like the answers, and you don't like it when your absurdity gets a light shined on it.

And if you guys want actual numbers then you produce some reliable statistics and I'll put them in a spread sheet for you, but part of the whole problem is numbers don't exist.

As I said this is typical buisness as usual for most vacation areas in 3rd world countries. I've been in Puerto Vallarta while 3 divers died and there was almost zero news of it. We would never have known about it had we not seen the federales at the site. I've been in Cozumel and found about about a death after the fact... and the list goes on and on.

Cover up of anything negative or just plain black out of any information is very typical... and hence why all you white washers of Bonaire get such a hard time.

I'd think that anybody who loves Bonaire would want the problems to be solved and the only way that is going to happen is with facing the truth and getting the information out, facing facts and admiting there is a problme, instead of all this pretending going on all the time.

You get the issue out there and something happens, you keep pretending it's not a problem and it's just another day in paradise where nothing bad happens until it happens to you and then you ask around and find out it's been going on forever, then you ask why does nobody know about it? and then the circle just keeps going round and round and round. Pretty soon it's the bigger fool syndrome in full effect.

That's why I say stop the BS, first step is admiting there is a problem, full disclosure and no white washing, only after that can solutions be possible.

 

[pilot fish]

The difference is that this post http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5142442-post159.html WAS reasonable vs. prior posts that use examples and pictures that are not actual and not representative to the subject.

The reason you saw those comic pix was because a lot of pixie dust was getting blown into this thread and it seemed like we all needed some comic relief from the white washing

None of the reasonable people on this thread, nor most other threads concerning Bonaire are attempting to spread misinformation... BUT, there IS a difference between people who are giving actual experience and people who are giving possibilities such as swinging cinder blocks and misrepresentation of pictures claiming them to be "actual pictures from Bonaire... just kidding"...
When information is given in an honest format and with experience it should not be trivialized as being "bias" because it is from someone who lives there or owns a business there... Guess what? The only honest answers to come out of Bonaire will be from people who live there, own a business there, or have experience there. Yet, these people are pushed away on this board as people spewing propaganda. No one will ever get true answers if this allowed to continue...

wow, that is absurdity to the max. The very people you mentioned are the very people who have a vested interest in keeping the Bonaire crime stats quiet. Those are the very people that are spreading the exaggerated, and false, statement that Bonaire is the safest island in the Caribbean.:shocked2: Now, you think that's honest and accurate?

 

[pilot fish]

Here's the problem... I get it just fine, but you keep trying to take my engineering degree for granted...

There has been no evidence that you get it at all, in this thread. For somone that CLAIMS to have an Engineering degree, any degreee, you seem to be finding it difficult to grasp the obvious.

Perhaps I should let my son with his psychology degree explain it to you... OR... just perhaps my daughter with her teaching degree can teach it to you...

Fine people I'm sure but hardly experts on bonaire crime, right?

Either way "scuba Joe" you have attempted to degrade me for the last time... You answered a question on this thread with an honest and unbiased response... once. You were "Thank"ed and congratulated for that response. It was a response worth the praise... I am sorry you cannot accept that praise for it's unbiased thanks and be humble, or accepting...

Have YOU been humble and accepting? In no way was he trying to degrade you. He was trying to educate you on the reality of the situation and how to improve it.