On my last dive to 400 Ft...

[daniel f aleman]

The comparison of DIR to Nazis in thread usage is not lost on some...

 

[JeffG]

I already proposed that. An argument on scubaboard is over when DIR is brought up, and the person who brought it up loses the argument.

Yes...You were the one who reminded me on the name of the law.

The comparison of DIR to Nazis in thread usage is not lost on some...

Gee....you lost me. Care to inform me on the usage?

 

[NJScubaDoc]

I found this thread to be interesting to say the least. Getting into diving I had no idea how hell bent some people were on their ideals when it came to Scuba. I guess that goes for all things human though.

I have a question though, having never done any type of naturally formed overhead environment diving (I hesitate to use the word cave, as there appears to be some question as to the definition of the word) I am just curious as to the allure of this type of diving? Why would anyone want to make their way through a cave that reaches into the abyss? I can understand the call of a wreck diver's desire for penetration from the potential gain of historical artifiacts or treasure. But what is so great about these caves?

I do not wish this post to be incendiary in any form, I am simply trying to gain insight as to why some people choose to dive where they do...kinda like why some people like jelly donuts and others don't. I for one like jelly donuts

 

[TSandM]

Oh, foo -- in my insomniac incessant dive video cruising this week, I ran across a video of Andrew Georgitsis diving in a cave in Mexico that simply, in one video and without words, sums up why somebody would want to dive in a cave . . . and I can't FIND it. Supposedly, it's on the FifthD site, but they've just redone the site and there's no current access to the video catalog

 

[MikeFerrara]

I found this thread to be interesting to say the least. Getting into diving I had no idea how hell bent some people were on their ideals when it came to Scuba. I guess that goes for all things human though.

I don't think that's what it is. Untrained divers diving caves in Mexico isn't a problem for me personally. But...a person just doesn't know what they don't know. In this instance it translates to not understanding the potential dangers of an overhead environment until you already have the training. Several times in this thread I've mentioned a good video that was designed exactly for that reason. In the video, Lamar Hires says something to the effect of...If it sounds like I'm trying to scare you, it's because I am. Cave diving like other things can be reasonably safe and fun once you know how.

I have a question though, having never done any type of naturally formed overhead environment diving (I hesitate to use the word cave, as there appears to be some question as to the definition of the word) I am just curious as to the allure of this type of diving? Why would anyone want to make their way through a cave that reaches into the abyss? I can understand the call of a wreck diver's desire for penetration from the potential gain of historical artifiacts or treasure. But what is so great about these caves?

The only question as to the definition of a cave is on the part of those who insist on diving them without any preperation and attempt to justify it by denying they are in a cave. a rose by any other name and all that.

I do not wish this post to be incendiary in any form, I am simply trying to gain insight as to why some people choose to dive where they do...kinda like why some people like jelly donuts and others don't. I for one like jelly donuts

There are as many reasons for diving in caves as there are reasons for diving. There is some breath taking sceenery in caves. Kind of like being able to fly and float through the Grand Canyon only prettier.

Others are driven to original exploration just to see where the cave goes and map it. Others are interested in the unique biology, the geology or hydrology. In some places the underground aquafer is important in that it holds the local source of fresh water and the health of that system effects every one in the area whether they realize it or not. In other areas the system provides critical drainage, without which, huge areas would flood everytime there is a rain. there are critters who are unique to a single cave system and new ones being discovered all the time. There are also commercial interests. Mineing or quarry oporations can be in a world of hurt if they break through into the aquafer which even creates business oportunities for those who are able to accurately map the systems.

And then of course there are those who just sell guided tours taking advantage of the resource to make money and sometimes the oporate in a way that's a disservice to both the environment and the divers. Reference the earlier comment (by redhatmamma I think) that there isn't much left living in those coral caves after all the divers scraping their tanks through there. Conservation of the environment itself is one of the things addressed in cave training. Cave divers works at learning skills that allow him/her to have as little impact as possible on the cave. They try to travel through less sensitive areas and limit forays off the beaten path which hopfully isn't very beaten. Just like not going into the woods and trampling every living thing under foot until there's nothing left alive.

Big, small, long, short or called something other than a cave, doesn't change the fact that the same methods apply for the purpose of preserving both the life of the diver and the health of the environment.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And then of course there are those who just sell guided tours taking advantage of the resource to make money and sometimes the oporate in a way that's a disservice to both the environment and the divers. Reference the earlier comment (by redhatmamma I think) that there isn't much left living in those coral caves after all the divers scraping their tanks through there. Conservation of the environment itself is one of the things addressed in cave training. Cave divers works at learning skills that allow him/her to have as little impact as possible on the cave. They try to travel through less sensitive areas and limit forays off the beaten path which hopfully isn't very beaten. Just like not going into the woods and trampling every living thing under foot until there's nothing left alive.

Yeah, I couldn't believe they actually used that aspect as a selling point ... as if to say "come help us destroy the very thing you're paying to go down and experience".

I saw some of that in Roatan, at Mary's Place ... divers with poor buoyancy control, banging tanks against the sides of the swim-through, have already done a lot of damage to that dive site. I can only imagine what happens to a high-traffic dive site like the one discussed in this thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TheRedHead]

Well, Mike, I believe I mentioned lack of life only pertaining to the small reef swimthrough known as the Devil's Throat which is not part of any cave system. It is a hole in the reef and the surrounding reef of Punta Sur is lush with life. If you had actually dived this site, you would understand this. I must assume that the entire diving world is wrong and the zealous few on scubaboard are right in labeling it a "cave." The site is often featured in recreational diving magazines as a recreational dive. It's been dived safely by thousands of people and is dived safely every day.

You would have a more valid point in railing against the Cancun operators who lead OW divers into cenotes on guided cavern dives where there is an overhead environment and untrained divers. But to rail against swimthroughs and label them caves is indicative of something other than rational thought.

 

[Soggy]

But to rail against swimthroughs and label them caves is indicative of something other than rational thought.

To continue to call it 'not an overhead' despite there being something overhead is equally indicative of something other than rational thought.

Yes or no...do you have any overhead training?

Can you tell me how long this "swimthrough" is?

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Yeah, I couldn't believe they actually used that aspect as a selling point ... as if to say "come help us destroy the very thing you're paying to go down and experience".

I saw some of that in Roatan, at Mary's Place ... divers with poor buoyancy control, banging tanks against the sides of the swim-through, have already done a lot of damage to that dive site. I can only imagine what happens to a high-traffic dive site like the one discussed in this thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yah... it's same deal in Coz. but much worse. There is nothing to see inside those swim-throughs. Anything that was there has been scraped away. Even if something was there most divers wouldn't see it because of the limited vis caused by the trail of flutter-kicking, poorly skilled 'cluster-mates' or because they are so freaked that all they can think is, "when do I get out of here."

But I don't think that's the idea. The idea is to do something 'different' or 'cool'. What other reason could there be?

It's sort like a roller-coaster ride at an old amusement park... everyone assumes that it's safe 'cause it's open to the public. People stand in line just because there's a line to stand to stand in.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

You would have a more valid point in railing against the Cancun operators who lead OW divers into cenotes on guided cavern dives where there is an overhead environment and untrained divers.

That's for sure.

It's in its infancy there... meaning that the walls and ceilings haven't yet been polished!

But it's totally obvious what that's all about.

Cavern? Give me a break! I've done some dives there that if they were caverns... well... then monkeys are gonna fly out of Soggy's butt!

I know for a fact that some divers have no buisiness inside some of those places. Yet, all they have to do is put up the money and in they go... off on another trust me dive!