Oms IQ Vs DR Transpack 2 , With Dr Wings?

[Patrick]

3500,

OK, you want the Ferrari. I'll give you an idea on what the Ferrari will cost. Give me a little time as I will have to check the costs.

I'm just curious though, how many of you on the list have actually worn out ballistic nylon or cordura shells?

Best regards,

Patrick
OxyCheq

 

[3500PSI]

How many people that own a new suv have taken them off-roading or any application that would call for a truck like that?

Its the piece of mind knowing that your gear is the **** and could go through hell and back and not even have a scratch on it.

I'm sure nobody has ever worn out a case before and i'm sure nobody has ever taken their Cadilac Escalade off-roading.

 

[ENikS]

I’m putting together a new BP+Wing set and looking at different options for a wing. OxyCheq is definitely one of the options. It has better design with air path going 360 degrees, high quality materials and workmanship but no protective shell offsets the advantages.
3500PSI raised valid point, in terms of reliability a bladder with shell is much better option. One can repair it on site in case it got ripped. Bladder glues easily with cement, shell can be sewn or glued with aquasill, etc. All parts are easily accessible.
Without separate internal bladder repair becomes more complicated.
Well, I could be off on this and would appreciate if somebody can provide logical explanation why one is better then the other. May be some personal experience?

Eugene

 

[pdoege]

I've beaten the hell out of my Pioneer and never had a leak.

It has about 100 dives now.

Its been beaten up against rusty wrecks in high currents, dragged across nasty cave ceilings, pulled up the sides of kayaks and boats, sat upon, mistreated, and generally treated like sh*t.

I've abused the Pioneer more than my Halcyon 55# and DR 45# wings.

Never had a problem. The bladders are tough. It is called ballistic nylon for a reason.

Funny how people with no experience with these products continually bad mouth them.

As for repair, they are pretty much disposable anyway. If glue or a patch doesn't work then I'll buy a new one.

As for CF or kevlar. Who in their right mind would pay a lot more money for a wing made out of kevlar or CF? That would be nuts. Look, they are already pretty cheap. They will last for years. If they develop a leak and can't be patched, just buy a new one. If you need redundancy during the dive you'll be using a drysuit or a dual bladder wing.

I can't imagine that there is a large market for a kevlar wing. I could be wrong.

Look at the market size. Wings don't sell all that well compared to BCs. Single tank wings don't sell all that well compared to double wings. So, the market for a CF/kevlar wing is whatever part of a very small market that can afford to spend a big premium for some very small benefit.

I'll give you that a super cheap CF wing would be way cool; I don't see it happening any time soon.

Peter

edit: Added carbon fibre/kevlar bit

 

[Patrick]

Hi Peter,

I tend to agree with you regarding your comments.

For what it is worth, ballistic nylon is tough, but not as as tough as Kevlar (Kevlar is also more difficult to sew and a more expensive material).

Bottom line, I hope to have the wing at DEMA (unless something unexpected happens).

There are a couple other things that will be added, but I'll save that surprise for later.

So, everyone that wants my version of the cat's meow (even though I do not think it is needed) will have that as an option at some point in the near future.

Meow.

Patrick

 

[ENikS]

pdoege,

Don't you think ~$260 is a bit too much for a disposable wing?
You right sh** may never happen and the wing will serve years and years but what if you go on vacation and you tear your wing on the firs dive on the wreck? You are not only loosing your equipment but you pretty much wasted your dives for whole week as well.

Eugene

 

[3500PSI]

Patrick

Companies that are innovators are the success's. . . not the imitators.

http://www.halcyon.net/mc/pioneer.shtml
http://oxycheq.com/Wings.html

Never underestimate the "cool" factor in products. Make a wing out of Kevlar and be an innovator.


"Look at the market size. Wings don't sell all that well compared to BCs. Single tank wings don't sell all that well compared to double wings. So, the market for a CF/kevlar wing is whatever part of a very small market that can afford to spend a big premium for some very small benefit."

you could also break down the car industry the same way. The market for Hummers could have also been seen as the same way 2 years ago. The new h2 is a cash cow that is being milked because they were different and took a chance.

If i could buy a super cool bulletproof kevlar wing for $800 i probably would.

 

[pdoege]

You can cut it with strong scissors and some effort, a very strong and sharp object can pierce it, if it absorbs a lot of thermal energy it will melt, dump enough KE into it and it will permanently deform.

If you dumped enough energy into it you could tear it. Can't imagine how you would pull that off under water and survive. I'm thinking that anything that will damage the wing under water will also severely damage the user.

I think that anything that will go through the nylon bladder will also go through any covering on the bladder.

The major vector for damage seems to be improper storage. If you crimp the bladder for a long time it will fail and then the wing will be junk. The bladder will probably oxidize after a couple of years and the wing will be junk then as well.

Replacement bladders for wings seem to run around $140. The additional $120 for a complete replacement that will most probably never be used isn't so bad.

That being said, I'll be at DEMA and I'll check out the "Meow".

Peter

PS. Notice that in my previous post that my Pioneer has already been up against a sharp wreck and suffered no damage. It has few rust stains here and there; I hate those.
PSS. Patrick did disprove my "not anytime soon" comment. Sort of cool, really.
PSSS. Halcyon's manual page 16 lists the things not to do to your wing. http://www.halcyon.net/manuals/halcyon_MC2003_web.pdf

 

[pdoege]

See http://community.webshots.com/album/66671030EJMekM

Looks like a lot of abrasion by a sharp BP will do the trick.

Patching the wing with Aquaseal handled the repair.

Peter

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

You guy's are talking about buying "The best of the Best wings," and will spend upto $800, but then you also want a wing that you can repair? I couldnt imagine diving 200' with deco stops, with a "Repaired" wing, why take the chance? We could just start another post on who thinks which coumpany makes the best wings,,,,,,,A-Hem............