Old time scuba divers

[Barefoot_Lawyer]

I'm sure if your kid gets hurt at a shallower depth than the 40 feet PADI says "must" be imposed as a limit, there could still be an investigation, just as there could be if an adult diver were hurt at less than 130 feet under the care of a divemaster. Yet PADI says "must" when the limit applies to 10-11 year old divers, but only "recommends" limits for adult divers.

Could there be an investigation if your kid gets hurt diving shallower than 40’ with you? Sure. But taking your kid deeper than REQUIRED limits placed on them/you by the certifying agency is per se parental neglect.

There are physiological and psychological reasons for that hard limit for 11 and 12 year olds.

 

[lowflyer]

About 1955 for me (see avatar). My father taught me after reading an instruction manual for the equipment we used. Never heard of any depth limits or decompression. No gauges or BCD, but the full face mask worked like a charm. We didn't know s#8t from shinola, but God protects drunks, fools and occasionally untrained SCUBA divers

 

[Celt]

I can't remember a time I wasn't in the water, as children we freedived to see who could go the deepest with nothing only swim togs (sometimes). As gear came along I begged borrowed or stole it. A bit like riding a bike.

 

[Belzelbub]

I think a lot more hours of training are in college classes than direct from shops.

Without a doubt. I have completed two OW courses. First one through PADI and a dive shop. Second one was YMCA (NAUI & CMAS certs optional) through a university.

It is no exaggeration to say that I spent more time in the water during the first pool session for the YMCA course than I did for my entire PADI course, including checkout dives. And I had another pool session later that week followed by 5 more weeks of pool sessions and checkout dives later.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Could there be an investigation if your kid gets hurt diving shallower than 40’ with you? Sure. But taking your kid deeper than REQUIRED limits placed on them/you by the certifying agency is per se parental neglect.

Can you cite an authority for that? Maybe this is your area of expertise. In my legal research (a few minutes of Googling, that is) I couldn't find much about "per se parental neglect" and how it could be applied in diving. I'm eager to learn but don't know where to start. Feel free to DM me if you don't want to discuss it further here.

As for there being good reasons behind PADI referring to this limit as a "must," as I said, I applaud PADI for making such a strong statement. I wholeheartedly agree there should be enforced limits for young divers. But I contrast that with PADI's (intentionally?) unclear statements about limits for adults. There have been endless discussions here about depth "limits," "recommendations" and so forth, due to the wishy-washy wording by training agencies.

 

[Bob DBF]

But I contrast that with PADI's (intentionally?) unclear statements about limits for adults. There have been endless discussions here about depth "limits," "recommendations" and so forth, due to the wishy-washy wording by training agencies.

It's harder for an agency to sell classes to extend a divers depth limit if there are no depth limits. It also helps if the classes train divers to be dependant on dive professionals, rather than be able to dive independently as outlined by RSTC requirements.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's harder for an agency to sell classes to extend a divers depth limit if there are no depth limits. It also helps if the classes train divers to be dependant on dive professionals, rather than be able to dive independently as outlined by RSTC requirements.

Bingo.

 

[Nemrod]

I was originally certified in 1987 in college. I dove some but got married the next year and my wife had zero interest (actually afraid to go underwater) in scuba. Years later (2020) I got recertified with my two, now, adult sons. Now in 2020 when I got certified it was to a maximum depth of 60 ft. To go beyond that you need advanced training. However, in 1987, I am almost certain that we were trained to go deeper. I remember learning about decompression tables as well as safety stops. Unfortunately, I cannot find my old scuba book. Was anyone been certified that long ago? Was deep diving training part of your certification? Is advance training for deep dives something that has come along in the past years or an I just misremembering? In 1987 I was certified under IDEA; in 2020 under PADI in case it is agency related.

Certifed originally in 1966 but the instructor held the card for me until I could bench press scuba tanks to his statisfaction. There was not depth limitation except for 130 feet. Light deco was part of the 8 week long, twice a week, three to four hours each meeting class. Each class consisted of lecture and pool sessions and ended with lap swimming. We also did some breath hold diving training. This was NAUI and my instructor had been a pro football player and was into fitness. He was also YMCA as well as NAUI. I do not recall if he was also LA County.

What you get today with the basic cert is what we did the first few sessions, courses back then and up well into the 80s were much more complete and inclued much of what is now sold as add on or specialty courses. My mom paid for my course in 1966 and I think it was $60 plus Y membership. My second go through in 68 was free. Just to prove to him I could bench press a steel 72, I forget how many times he required.

And just saying, the course was full up with mostly young people through college age, there may have been a few over 30. And, another interesting thing, the men's (lap) swim hour was just prior our class and swimsuits were not required so my instructor or one of us guys had to make sure the stragglers had cleared the deck, lol, since we were coed.

And the bench pressing scuba tanks was just an excuse he invented not to give me a C-card at 12 yo since he had no other nail to hang his hat on and I was the best swimmer in the class and passed every skill just fine. At that age two years and puberty kicking in makes a huge difference .

N

 

[Barefoot_Lawyer]

Can you cite an authority for that? Maybe this is your area of expertise. In my legal research (a few minutes of Googling, that is) I couldn't find much about "per se parental neglect" and how it could be applied in diving. I'm eager to learn but don't know where to start. Feel free to DM me if you don't want to discuss it further here.

As for there being good reasons behind PADI referring to this limit as a "must," as I said, I applaud PADI for making such a strong statement. I wholeheartedly agree there should be enforced limits for young divers. But I contrast that with PADI's (intentionally?) unclear statements about limits for adults. There have been endless discussions here about depth "limits," "recommendations" and so forth, due to the wishy-washy wording by training agencies.

I just mean that the parent is a certified scuba diver themselves, read through the list of inherent scuba diving dangers, and signed the PADI youth diver form, which, among other things, says “I/we agree to abide by all supervisory and depth limitations that may accompany my/our child’s PADI certification” And they willfully chose to violate that, placing their child in danger. This is child endangerment / neglect (depending on what a given jurisdiction calls it). The term “per se” was used just to mean that “in and of itself” the violation of the hard depth limit after you were apprised of the dangers and agreed not to violate them with your child is neglectful / endangerment.

 

[DogDiver]

I just mean that the parent is a certified scuba diver themselves, read through the list of inherent scuba diving dangers, and signed the PADI youth diver form, which, among other things, says “I/we agree to abide by all supervisory and depth limitations that may accompany my/our child’s PADI certification” And they willfully chose to violate that, placing their child in danger. This is child endangerment / neglect (depending on what a given jurisdiction calls it). The term “per se” was used just to mean that “in and of itself” the violation of the hard depth limit after you were apprised of the dangers and agreed not to violate them with your child is neglectful / endangerment.

There are no Scuba Police. However with that said. Adolescent growth plates in long bones don’t stop growing until their late teens. Only an X-ray can confirm growth plate closure. And no DAN has not done any comprehensive studies as who wants to be a Guinea pig for science. This issue was looked into using anecdotal cases by DAN and Michigan State University divers. So go ahead and risk your child’s bone density and growth future. No one knows for fact the effects on nitrogen at high pressure on a child’s body.