Observation about this forum... curious?

[MikeFerrara]

JJ is a very charismatic, likeable guy.

Likeable...yes but he didn't strike me as charismatic really.

So what you have is a lot of neophyte salesmen trying to do him a favor by herding a slew of novice divers his way. You just have to learn to ignor it.

You're way off. Every one I know who uses a bp/wink started out with a conventional bc and usually several. In the process of solving configuration problems we migrated to a bp/wing. In fact I've been diving a bp exclusively since before I ever heard of JJ.

I showed up for a class with my IANTD instructor and he suggested a bp/wing as a solution to some obvious configuration problems that you run into with something like a Ranger. I tried it and never looked back.

 

[pw1981]

Not to harp, but doesn't belong in the "Whine and Cheeze" section?

Possibly, but since this was SPECIFIC to this forum only, I took some liberty.

Since we dislike jacket style BCD's, we automaticly assume that your questions are a mask for your loathing of the jacket style BCD's too.

LioKai,

I very much appreciate your reply, very explainatory of what is is working in the BP&W crowd's heads However, this is the logic I was referring to... when someone asks for feedback on a particular BC it means that they want feedback on a particular BC.

I can appreciate your wanting to help people out - I myself have been thru 3 jacket style BC's but I loate the BP&W setup as overly expensive and complicated to rig up with everything I need in the water - with a jacket BC I put stuff in the pocket and take a step off the boat. With a BP&W I have to figure out where to put everything, after spending $500+, by purchasing more gear and weight belts and such. I, and most other divers I know, are fans of the KISS philosophy and if we can have a all-in-one device that does the job well then it is the best option.

Again, I appreciate your candid reply!

 

[RonDawg]

Another question for the BP/W folks: I'm aware that jacket style BCD's tend to get rather uncomfortable when fully inflated, but what are the advantages of BP/W over a back-inflate style, which won't have the same "squeeze" of a jacket-style?

 

[Mortlock]

I, and most other divers I know, are fans of the KISS philosophy and if we can have a all-in-one device that does the job well then it is the best option.

Maybe you need to look at buying a HUB? :11ztongue

I didn't pay $500+ for my BP/W and I don't think you could find another kind of BC that's more simple or comfortable.

To answer your original question, I think most BP/W advocates are simply trying to help other people out. Before I came to this board I didn't even know what a BP/W was. Now I own one and it seems far superior to any other BC I've used before. Maybe when BP/Wer's notice someone asking about x jacket they figure why not give them an intro to the BP/W world that's made the BP/Wer so happy.

Morty

 

[David Evans]

Another question for the BP/W folks: I'm aware that jacket style BCD's tend to get rather uncomfortable when fully inflated, but what are the advantages of BP/W over a back-inflate style, which won't have the same "squeeze" of a jacket-style?

To rehash the millions of posts on this topic as to the benefits of a BP/W over a stab jacket or conventional BC, the BP/W:

- is totally custom fit to the diver. There's not a better fitting BC on the market.

- Places weight over the lungs, which dramatically improves trim

- Doesn't contain all that nice foam padding, which is comfortable on the surface but floats like hell and makes proper trim difficult as a result (and also causes the diver to need to carry more weight to counter the floaty bits)

- Is very streamlined, clean and hydrodynamic, making the diver do less work to move around

- Is wonderfully flexible in configuration, allowing the diver to quickly move between tropical and cold water, and from single to doubles with minimal fuss

- Is compact and packs flat and easy for travel

- Is rugged and durable beyond any other system, with the only parts that could wear out being inexpensive and easy to replace by the owner using webbing found at any hardware store

- Provides the most robust method of attaching a cylinder to a diver, meaning that the system feels like it's attached to the diver's body, with no slop and no give... and that's a good thing

- Minimizes the number of potential failure points that could cause a diver to be separated from his rig underwater... which is a very bad thing

There's more. Lots more. On these very forums.

But the answer to the initial question is that without exception, I've never met a diver that tried a properly-fitted BP/W system that didn't prefer it to a conventional BC. And like so many others, I owned a conventional BC before I got my BP/W set-up, which was $500 of my hard-earned American dollars flushed down the eBay toilet.

Divers are nice people. We try to prevent others from making the same mistakes we made.



-d

 

[RonDawg]

Thanks. I did try checking the threads (at least the more recent ones), but aside from modularity it seemed like the pro-BP/W folks were justifying their viewpoints with "because it's good for you", just like our mothers used say to get us to eat our vegetables :11:

 

[mer]

Thanks. I did try checking the threads (at least the more recent ones), but aside from modularity it seemed like the pro-BP/W folks were justifying their viewpoints with "because it's good for you", just like our mothers used say to get us to eat our vegetables :11:

Well, your mother new best.. didn't she? She also realized explaining about fiber and vitamins was over your head.

Seriously, once you try the BP/wings, most people have an ephinay (sp) and never go back. Us converts are just trying to help people out.

 

[grouchyturtle]

Yeah pretty much what everyone else said!

Myself and at least 3 of my buddies were trained in jacket BC, dove back inflates for a while, and now have BPs. We love them, will never go back, and wish we hadn't wasted our money on our previous BCs.

There are many misconceptions about BPs that new divers, or divers who've never used one have. Like "How can having a steel plate on you back be comfortable?" I was going to replace the wing on modular back inflate less than 2 months after making that exact comment to another diver, and wound up buying the BP and harness too.

That's why we always suggest BPs. So many people have their minds made up before even trying one and usually based on inaccurate information about them.

As far as being salesmen for JJ, I haven't seen a commission check yet, and last time I checked there were at least 4 other companies making BP/wings.

 

[ASUPaula]

Aloha PW1981.
I think that part of the issue is that we (BP/W users) started out with the basic jacket BCD and disliked it. We purchased BCD after BCD after BCD, loathing the darn things more and more as time went by. We also spent thousands (selling for less than hundreds) of dollars on jacket BCD's that we disliked, until we each discovered BP/W on our own, (with the exception of the JJ followers who only know how to do what they are told). For many of us, our discovery of the BP/W was like discovering the cure for cancer. Most of us (not all, some are radicals) just want you to be as satisfied as we are, without blowing the tons of cash that we wasted, not to mention the years of trial and error. Since we dislike jacket style BCD's, we automaticly assume that your questions are a mask for your loathing of the jacket style BCD's too.

I get to test a LOT of different gear, BCD's included, and I always come back to a BP/W. It works for me. I let divers on my boat borrow my BP/W all the time, but only if they ask. I don't force it on them, like many of us (me included) try to do here.

Many of us are guilty of your complaint. Keep in mind that most of us (not all) are just trying to keep you (others) from making the same choices (mistakes) that we made. It really is our intention to be helpful, even though it doesn't always read that way.

As a representitive of the BP/W community, I apologize.

Matthew

Matthew,

I'm impressed by the toughtfulness and consideration evident in your reply. I confess that, despite my contentment with my first and only bc (rear inflation), you me want to go shopping.

~Paula

 

[OE2X]

I loate the BP&W setup as overly expensive and complicated to rig up with everything I need in the water - with a jacket BC I put stuff in the pocket and take a step off the boat. With a BP&W I have to figure out where to put everything, after spending $500+, by purchasing more gear and weight belts and such. I, and most other divers I know, are fans of the KISS philosophy and if we can have a all-in-one device that does the job well then it is the best option.

Again, I appreciate your candid reply!

Sorry, I have to disagree here. I've now taken the BPW fork in the road after buying two other BCD's in a couple of months.

It really doesn't get any simpler than this configuration, once you have put the first hour or so into the set up. It will take longer the first time to customize the fit and placement of D rings etc... Once that's done - it's done!
While a BPW may look confusing on the surface to people unfamiliar with how it works - it may be because many of us embrace long hose primaries, can lights, spg and backup light. Notice with the exception of a bungeed secondary - everything has clips to be clipped off on very specific D rings. Granted this can appear confusing. One can still use a BPW with a rec. configuration that might appear to be more familar and less tech oriented. You also don't have to change to a long hose primary or can light or for that matter an SPG - go hoseless for your computer if that's what turns you on. If you don't want to use it DIR style - fine. It still may be the last BC device that you will need to buy.

The only other thing that I carry with me besides a camera (occasionally) is an SMB and reel which I clip off to my rear D ring. The SMB is brought only on boat dives and the camera very rarely. Everything else is clipped off on the harness or mounted on my wrists. It's very KISS!


As to the weight issue: I've got an extra 20# of lead that I have no use for any more. I wear a very minimal weight belt and all the rest is made up in the BP.

Failure points: There really aren't any. I don't have plastic buckles to break, integrated weight cords, zippers or velcro to fail. The only real one is loosing a wingnut that attaches my single tank adaptor to the BP. I now carry a couple in my save-a-dive kit. I also have an extra 2" buckle in it. If I wanted to go overboard I could carry enough 2" webbing to make another harness on the fly...


Lastly I dove with someone new last weekend. He had a camera and a pony bottle. He wore BCD. This guy had more things coming off of him than a NW octopus. I had to free him twice from kelp because he had two unclipped spg's and two (unclipped) second stages dragging in the mud. Thank god we weren't in a wreck or someplace where there were lines hanging around. While I'm no great diver - at least on this dive my buddy didn't have to clean up my configuration since everything had it's place.