NTSB CONCEPTION HEARING - THIS TUESDAY @ 10AM

[BSphere]

The Conception disaster has been an eye opener. Even when Covid settles down I will be relunctant to embark on any liveaboard trip. It will certainly limit my diving options.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

I don't understand your point. If I am running a single dive boat, what does any of this have to do with my decision to implement inexpensive changes that will make my boat safer for my customers?

Let me try again: YOUR decision still has to comply with USCG regs. (I guess the modified joke would be, "We're from the Coast Guard we're here to make you safer.") Many changes you make on a boat have to be approved by USCG. Now, maybe not anything like adding smoke detectors in the galley where they're not currently required. KevinNM mentioned (and I can confirm) that changes made to the Vision have left USCG stymied because they're not sure how to approve them. It seems we can all agree that an escape hatch of 32" or greater leading from the bunkroom to the weather deck (outside the galley/salon area) with small stairs (not a ladder) to access it is a great idea . . . but USCG hasn't seen it before, have no standards for it, doesn't know how to yet approve it, even though it's exactly what the NTSB recommended.

Back in the mid-00s when we still had our brick-and-mortar store open, we had a similar grandfathered-in-old-regs situation and they all related to being ADA-compatible. We were not. First of all, we were half-a-story up so there were a dozen or so steps/stairs in the front as well as the back entrance. Not wheelchair accessible. Our door widths were also 30" not the required 32" of clear space. There might have been a couple of other things as well. But the point is that if you changed one, you had to change them all. And - don't hold me to this - but there were other things like if you made some structural improvement or change that had nothing to do with ADA, you were then still required to change everything else to make it all ADA-compatible.

In our case, we complied with the ADA overall standard, which is to make your business accessible to everyone. We had instances where a wheelchair customer would show up and we'd offer to carry them and their chair up and into the store. We had other instances where a wheelchair customer didn't want to come up so we'd bring items down to their car. (And when someone tried to forceus to install a wheelchair ramp AND and elevator, a mediator ruled in our favor that we compiled with the intent of the ADA.)

So, as Frank pointed out, you make one change and it sets off a series of other changes now required because you made the first change and you small little project to improve the safety of your passengers now because a huge money-pit to satisfy the regulators which will put you out of business. So you don't set off this chain of events so that you can stay in business and protect your assets.

Does that help lessen your confusion?

 

[scubadada]

Quite honestly, that makes your only liveaboard choice the nautilus Belle Amie. I can’t think of any other purpose built boat since 1996 that is built to IMO standards. There are new boats out there, but none built to that level of rigor.

Hi @Wookie My friend Frank

This is all so confusing to the boat non-savvy. I was on the Nautilus Explorer in May 2019. Seemed like a really good boat, passed my safety inspection with the exception of the roving watch, I'm never up at night to check, except for on the Spree when I had to use the bathroom. The Explorer was the "first dive boat to be SOLAS certified", "ISM certified". How are us dumb dive guys supposed to figure this out?

Thanks for your assistance, Craig

 

[scubadada]

Does that help lessen your confusion?

No, not really.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

No, not really.

Now I'M confused. I thought it was John who was confused, not you.
Using both Frank's and my hypothetical scenarios, what doesn't make sense to you?
(I'm also gonna start watching the WS ballgame so don't expect a quick answer.)

 

[scubadada]

Now I'M confused. I thought it was John who was confused, not you.
Using both Frank's and my hypothetical scenarios, what doesn't make sense to you?
(I'm also gonna start watching the WS ballgame so don't expect a quick answer.)

Thought you might be able to generalize, sorry I interrupted your private conversation.

 

[KevinNM]

Hi @Wookie My friend Frank

This is all so confusing to the boat non-savvy. I was on the Nautilus Explorer in May 2019. Seemed like a really good boat, passed my safety inspection with the exception of the roving watch, I'm never up at night to check, except for on the Spree when I had to use the bathroom. The Explorer was the "first dive boat to be SOLAS certified", "ISM certified". How are us dumb dive guys supposed to figure this out?

Thanks for your assistance, Craig

Actual SOLAS has a lot of implications. Like actual lifeboats and chase boats, watertight compartments and flooding tolerance. It’s a LOT that to be designed in, it’s not just an addon.

 

[Wookie]

Hi @Wookie My friend Frank

This is all so confusing to the boat non-savvy. I was on the Nautilus Explorer in May 2019. Seemed like a really good boat, passed my safety inspection with the exception of the roving watch, I'm never up at night to check, except for on the Spree when I had to use the bathroom. The Explorer was the "first dive boat to be SOLAS certified", "ISM certified". How are us dumb dive guys supposed to figure this out?

Thanks for your assistance, Craig

I didn’t say that there weren’t excellently built boats out there, but you said something very specific, having to do with boats built before 1996. Most diving liveaboards were built before 1996, and most newer boats aren’t built to the standards a 1996 boat was built to. Some very well known boats run by major fleets are built of wood. Often Red Sea and Maldives boats are built of wood. Boats that only run inside a single country only have to adhere to that countries standards. Think about Bahamas standards for a minute. Or Raja Ampat. Or Egypt.

Nautilus Explorer was built to Transport Canada and IMO standards. She is operated under Panama Flag. She is as safe as she is because Mike Lever wants her to be safe, not because her flag state requires it.

 

[scubadada]

I didn’t say that there weren’t excellently built boats out there, but you said something very specific, having to do with boats built before 1996. Most diving liveaboards were built before 1996, and most newer boats aren’t built to the standards a 1996 boat was built to. Some very well known boats run by major fleets are built of wood. Often Red Sea and Maldives boats are built of wood. Boats that only run inside a single country only have to adhere to that countries standards. Think about Bahamas standards for a minute. Or Raja Ampat. Or Egypt.

Nautilus Explorer was built to Transport Canada and IMO standards. She is operated under Panama Flag. She is as safe as she is because Mike Lever wants her to be safe, not because her flag state requires it.

Explorer was launched in 2000, does that play a role?

 

[Wookie]

Explorer was launched in 2000, does that play a role?

1996 applies to US built boats only. NE was built in Canada for the Canadian trade. She was built to completely different regulations.