Not everyone thinks cave diving is the pinnacle of SCUBA!

[NAM001]

What a load of dung. The format of your statement is = to every movement ever started. Even a child knows that there are things like legal standing, moral standing, ethical standing, political correctness, social behavior ect. You are dead wrong on all aspects except as you claim the arena of legal standing. Because of that you feel that you can negate all the other standings. Your thought process says that burning a community to the ground is freedom of speech. I will take exception to the no legal standing. gong into a cave with out adaquate precautions could be comprable to jumping off a building with out a parachute. I highly suspect that every state has laws making suicidal behavior illegal. Your only stand is whether another diver should prevent you from killing your self of not. Morally ethically socially they should but are they legally bound? Probably not and a lawyer would say preventing you could be unlawfull detainment. Jefferson said that our form of government will only work in a moral society. So id it the same for moral ethical and social behavior. I give you the benifit of the doubt on where you think i believe you positon is to the moral ethical and social line.

Most of these dive sites are private places and function on the premis that those who use it will regulate thier behavior. When you enter these places you relinquish legal reglations for those of the self regulating group. In that light most likely I can not physically stop you from stupidity but I can initiate you being banned from further access to the site. It takes nothing more than the gate keeper to tell you to pack up and leave the site. The property owner is judge jury and exicutioner. Every place ive been to says you agree not to dive responsibily. If you are in a cave and you are not certified you are not diving responsibily and have broken you agreement for access.

edit: sorry that should have been the quote you quoted by tony... ". So if we were on the rifle or pistol range and you were trying to clear a jammed round, do you not think that it is right of me to grab the barrel and point it in a sake direction because you were too focused on the rifle and not noticing that you were pointing it a JamesK? (Sorry James).
"

If I want to go into a cave and swim until my little tanks empty there's NO LAW to stop me. The police cannot even stop me because there is NO LAW against it. and you.. YOU sir, have NO right, not an obligation, not a right, no reason at all, to do so.

and at the same time, I have no right to stop YOU from cave diving.

THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF A FREE COUNTRY.

 

[lowviz]

What a load of dung. The format of your statement is = to every movement ever started. ...//...

[h=1]"The purity of a revolution can last a fortnight.."[/h]
Swampy459,

Look at it this way. You just bought rights to a nice little piece of, let's say Wakulla County. It's yours, its fenced, taxes paid, and damn if there isn't a cute little sinkhole at the low end of it.

After giving you the finger, I'm going to dive it, *******...

 

[randytay]

Not everyone think snipers and competitive shooters are the best shooters. If I just want to take my gun, go to the range and just endanger everybody's life by pointing and firing in every direction that's my right. I don't need no range marshals or instructors to tell me what to do. I can load, shoot and reload on my own and that's good enough. It's my right.

 

[AfterDark]

Not everyone think snipers and competitive shooters are the best shooters. If I just want to take my gun, go to the range and just endanger everybody's life by pointing and firing in every direction that's my right. I don't need no range marshals or instructors to tell me what to do. I can load, shoot and reload on my own and that's good enough. It's my right.

HUH? I'd shoot you.

 

[JamesK]

Not everyone think snipers and competitive shooters are the best shooters. If I just want to take my gun, go to the range and just endanger everybody's life by pointing and firing in every direction that's my right. I don't need no range marshals or instructors to tell me what to do. I can load, shoot and reload on my own and that's good enough. It's my right.

Umm, no it's not. It's called reckless endangerment. Again, where do all if these people keep getting this idea they have all these rights that do not exist! I have run ranges since 1998. Both civilian and military. Try that one one of my ranges and we will have issues. Civilian range and you are gone! Done. Make a scene and you will be escorted out by police where I will press charges. Military range? Oh just damn. Now I get to have lots of fun.

 

[randytay]

Try escorting me and I'll bitch slap all of you with split fins and club you over the head with air2.

 

[kotik]

For the record, I believe RandyTay's speaking metaphorically, comparing this attitude to Swampy's and others--

 

[JamesK]

Try escorting me and I'll bitch slap all of you with split fins and club you over the head with air2.

See now you are just trolling.

---------- Post added March 1st, 2013 at 08:19 AM ----------

For the record, I believe RandyTay's speaking metaphorically, comparing this attitude to Swampy's and others--

Ahhh ok. I am getting lost in all the nonsense on this tread. It's hard to keep track of who is sane.

 

[kotik]

I wouldn't say that an untrained diver in a cave is quite so reckless as someone randomly shooting in a populated place. I think LowViz did pretty well at giving the distilled version.

What's more in LowViz's version, is that the owner has very reluctantly agreed to allow some others to dive, after long discussions with that owner about the protocols and training in place that allow it to be done safely, that they aren't so likely to have deaths on their hands as they might expect.

Diving these caves is done by permission, and in most cases that permission is won as the result of long entreaties and discussions with the land owner, whether that's a private party, the state , the county, or other. This work is done by dedicated cavers, out of their love of the springs. It's not a paying gig. In many cases the cave diving community does lots of work after that too, donating lumber and labor to build steps and decks and parking facilities, etc.

The untrained diver that only sees what he has the impulse to do, yelling about his rights, can easily ruin things for those that put their heart and soul into the pursuit. I'm not going to condone using physical force against someone who shouldn't be in a cave, but I can understand it depending on the circumstances. If you're in a museum and you see someone getting ready to spraypaint over the Mona Lisa, any chance you might physically intervene? Maybe it's technically assault to touch them since you're not the police, but you're not a lawyer so who knows? If you love the painting and see it about to be taken away from everyone, you probably don't care a lot about what the law actually is at that moment.

 

[danvolker]

Personally, I think a clear moral issue over something important will trump legal most times. At least to me.