Northern soul or "idiot's dream?"

[Dea]

Indeco, their ice diving class seems reasonably priced. Though for the arctic there are better offers out there.

Rockey, thanks, I know about Norbert Wu's photos. they are very inspiring. (I placed that link on my ice diving page on my main site. But now that I found some more photos I better re-do that section)

Otter-cat, the cost is the only thing that is stopping me right now. A nice long trip plus special gear cost will run about 10K. (and no sence in going for a short trip if it is a dream of a lifetime!)

Northeastwrecks, what's your problem with Former Soviet Union research vessels? Could it be you saw K-19? an ice diver should not be that impressionable. LOL
I would be very happy to go on one. I would much prefer a long icebreaker trip to a plane. I think it would give a more complete Arctic experience. And those research vessels were build far tougher than any commercial icebreaker would be. Most of them in the 80s so they are not outdated by icebreaker standards.
Of course not luxurious, but hey, those to whom comfort is important do not dream of 0 degree water. Besides, I dislike "touristy" feel when traveling, so for me a huge Soivet research vessel is just what the doctor ordered. except they are not cheap.

Budgy, could you pass those along to me please??? I'd leave my NY office for even manual labor on an arctic station in a New York minute. (apparently I have strange priorities)

 

[metridium]

Antarctica? Definitely!

North Pole? Definitely not!

Not after seeing a documentary about Greenland sharks....

Anyone know how far from the surface to the bottom at the North Pole? Or how thick the ice is there?

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Originally posted by Dea
Northeastwrecks, what's your problem with Former Soviet Union research vessels? Could it be you saw K-19? an ice diver should not be that impressionable. LOL
I would be very happy to go on one. I would much prefer a long icebreaker trip to a plane. I think it would give a more complete Arctic experience. And those research vessels were build far tougher than any commercial icebreaker would be. Most of them in the 80s so they are not outdated by icebreaker standards.
Of course not luxurious, but hey, those to whom comfort is important do not dream of 0 degree water. Besides, I dislike "touristy" feel when traveling, so for me a huge Soivet research vessel is just what the doctor ordered. except they are not cheap.

Two words. "The Kursk"

More words. When I was in the U.S. Army, I had the opportunity to study and train with relatively current SU, FSU and Warsaw Pact equipment. I found it to be lacking in safety features and, in general, poorly made when compared to UK/US/NATO equipment. I give them credit for ingenuity and for doing amazing things on a shoestring budget, but that does not mean that I want to trust their equipment.

In addition, I doubt that there has been much in the way of refitting or maintenance since the vessels were built.

I'm not ruling it out; however, I would rather pay more to get a ship that I trust. I love diving wrecks, but not when the wreck is the ship that brought me.

 

[Dea]

As long as you don't charter a nuclear submarine, you should be quite safe.

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dea
As long as you don't charter a nuclear submarine, you should be quite safe.

or an airplane. One FSU carrier had a plane disintegrate on takeoff a few years ago...literally falling apart from rust.

 

[Dea]

It seems like we never get rid of the psychological effects of cold war. Every time something breaks down in the FSU, there is so much attention to it in the States and it is presented in quite a different light and with different emotions than if a tragedy happens here.
(The same way as the everyday media report. When showing the US media does not portray rural Kentucky or Harlem slums as a representation of a country, but whenever the report is of Russia they absolutely have to find the most run down streets and a poor "babushka." I don't know, maybe it is done because that's what American public wants to see?)

Vast majority of the Russian coastline are rough northern seas, and it has the largest icebreaker fleet.
So if Russian icebreakers were not reliable, US media would surely cover that story extensively.

I, for one, would be very happy to get on any of these ships:

http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/antarctica/deck_khle5.shtml
http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/antarctica/deck_mult_ea03_5.shtml

http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/antarctica/deck_molc_ea03_1.shtml

http://www.quarkexpeditions.com/arctic/deck_yamal_np02.shtml

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dea
It seems like we never get rid of the psychological effects of cold war. Every time something breaks down in the FSU, there is so much attention to it in the States

Interesting. My perception is 180 degrees different. FSU events receive very little attention of more than a cursory nature, with the exception of the Kursk and aside from specialist publications like the Economist.

Had you ever heard of the crash I mentioned?

 

[Dea]

Metridium, when it comes to FSU, most often only disasters get covered. Thats popular. Also, I'm afraid it appeals on some level to an average viewer who was raized on cold war feelings as it makes them feel "patriotic superiority" or something to that effect. I hope I am mistaken about that.

Also I guess US media just loves disasters. They show all the local ones they can find too But when it comes to local disasters, we can draw on our experience to tell us that not everything is horrible and broken and dangerous. But when it comes to a place most people have never been, that perseption stays.

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dea
Metridium, when it comes to FSU, most often only disasters get covered. Thats popular.
But I guess US media just loves disasters. They show all the local ones they can find too

Remember that song "Dirty Laundry"?

Covering the latest disaster or scandal, that's what the media are all about. For non-current events, they're practically useless.

Originally posted by Dea
But when it comes to local disasters, we can draw on our experience to tell us that not everything is horrible and broken and dangerous. But when it comes to a place most people have never been, that perseption stays.

That applies not only to FSU, but also to Africa, Asia, South America, and even places in the continental US, I'd say.

 

[Dea]

It is a shame that people do not travel more and base their preceptions on one-sided media. A lot of countries besides US have achievements and great things to offer. And instead people remain with preconseived notions and miss out on so much.

Just last week I've heard a woman say "there is no culture in Europe" when a European woman failed to adequatly compliment her new dress.
I did not even know what to say. I was lost for words.
And two of my co-workers have never been abroad and never care to go!
But with relations to former FSU, it is even worse than with most countries because for so long US and Russia have been dead set on undermining each other, and that unfortunately attitude can't just go away that easy.

I hope I don't start a cold(or flame war.) in that topic. (because don't quite agree with your logo )