'Non' DIR or DIR diver?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Your type of comment has merit. I'll respect it. But, why do DIR divers get bashed for not wanting to dive with the rest of the world? The rest of the world has each other to dive with, I just happen to prefer to be on the same page as the others that I dive with, and DIR is a good way to ensure that.

Unfortunately, Doug ... (and as you well know, 'cuz you've heard me discuss this in person) ... it has more merit than that. The tech crowd around here is somewhat screwed up. GUE guys go out on the same boat with NAUI Tech guys ... but won't dive together. They use the same gear configuration, the same planning strategy, the same gas selection, the same deco schedule, the same safety protocols ... hell, they're even diving out of the same shop! The only noticeable difference between the two groups is the letters on their cert card ... and yet there's a virtual "wall" between the two groups.

Try as I might, I just can't get past that barrier ... because it's an artifically-inflicted one. I might see it if there were some real differences between how the two groups dive ... but it boils down to agency politics, and that just doesn't sit well with me. There are some folks I seriously enjoyed diving with ... but we chose different tech instruction, and suddenly there's a barrier that just shouldn't be there.

Overall, I find it laughable how vocal the anti-DIR crowd is on this board.

What I find even more laughable is how much they act out the very behavior they're complaining about ... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, ya know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RiverRat]

Overall, I find it laughable how vocal the anti-DIR crowd is on this board.

I think both sides a very vocal. But let me ask you this. Do you assume I'm "anti-DIR" just because I was straight up about my position on the topic? Like I said, I've adopted quite a bit of it and have no problem with it at all. It's just I may go out and do things considered a "no-no" to the DIR folks. But it doesn't mean I'm an "anti". At least from my perspective.

 

[rjack321]

One is that GI's rants caused a lot of damage and it just won't go away. The internet has a habit of retaining information for many years
.

Why do yo think that is? GI3 has basically left diving. He's got his own little universe over on his Gavin scooter list. Most of his rantings are only available by cache since the original lists are long gone. Many of todays' GUE trained divers started after he fell off the radar anyway. Why should they be characterized by someone they never met, will likely never meet, and have zero affliation with?

 

[RiverRat]

Why do yo think that is? GI3 has basically left diving. He's got his own little universe over on his Gavin scooter list. Most of his rantings are only available by cache since the original lists are long gone.

I think it is because it keeps getting brought up. Just by talking about it here unfortunately spreads it a little more but at least we can attempt to discuss it and maybe help put it to rest. But I can't tell you how many times his attitude was reflected on this board. And in the bull**** videos on the net. Chances are if you get into DIR or just want to learn about it you WILL run into it. Listen I'm sick of it. I know the DIR crowd is. I think the only way you can deal with it is head on. Prove the guy's ramblings were not too smart.

 

[RiverRat]

... it has more merit than that. The tech crowd around here is somewhat screwed up. GUE guys go out on the same boat with NAUI Tech guys ... but won't dive together. They use the same gear configuration, the same planning strategy, the same gas selection, the same deco schedule, the same safety protocols ... hell, they're even diving out of the same shop! The only noticeable difference between the two groups is the letters on their cert card ... and yet there's a virtual "wall" between the two groups.

I think that says a lot. What is a DIR/GUE potential diver to think about that crap if he saw it on a boat? I think the DIR folks forgot that just about everything they do was created before they slapped a label on it. Yes they refined quite a few protocols, streamlined gear etc. Nothing wrong with that but let's not forget where it all came from.

 

[Hank49]

Try as I might, I just can't get past that barrier ... because it's an artifically-inflicted one. I might see it if there were some real differences between how the two groups dive ... but it boils down to agency politics, and that just doesn't sit well with me. There are some folks I seriously enjoyed diving with ... but we chose different tech instruction, and suddenly there's a barrier that just shouldn't be there.


.. Bob (Grateful Diver)

I thought those "walls" only existed here on the internet and that once you're on a boat cruising over the crystal waters you're about to submerge in....all that bs is forgotten. I don't think that wall thing would occur in the tropics. Ya man...we just dive.....

 

[rjack321]

I think it is because it keeps getting brought up. Just by talking about it here unfortunately spreads it a little more but at least we can attempt to discuss it and maybe help put it to rest. But I can't tell you how many times his attitude was reflected on this board. And in the bull**** videos on the net. Chances are if you get into DIR or just want to learn about it you WILL run into it. Listen I'm sick of it. I know the DIR crowd is. I think the only way you can deal with it is head on. Prove the guy's ramblings were not too smart.

Deal with GI3 head on? Maybe a topic for a fresh thread...

 

[rjack321]

I think that says a lot. What is a DIR/GUE potential diver to think about that crap if he saw it on a boat? I think the DIR folks forgot that just about everything they do was created before they slapped a label on it. Yes they refined quite a few protocols, streamlined gear etc. Nothing wrong with that but let's not forget where it all came from.

That its BS.

However there are greater threats to humanity so I personally just ignore it and avoid divers with this mentality. I choose buddies, not the agency that trained them.

Yes I am GUE trained, no I didn't vote in the poll.

 

[dsteding]

I think both sides a very vocal. But let me ask you this. Do you assume I'm "anti-DIR" just because I was straight up about my position on the topic? Like I said, I've adopted quite a bit of it and have no problem with it at all. It's just I may go out and do things considered a "no-no" to the DIR folks. But it doesn't mean I'm an "anti". At least from my perspective.

No, that was more of a general comment on the thread than a reflection on you, since I haven't really read enough of your posts to form an opinion one way or another.

Bob-I agree that there may be an artificial wall. Part of the reason (and I'm not making excuses, just observations) is comfort, people dive (especially at the tech level) with others that are known quantities. One way to do that is to rely upon agency--especially if there is a high standard of training like GUE's. Admittedly, that is probably an easy "out" for that crew, but I think things are softening a bit due to the efforts of some of the NAUI guys. Lately, I've heard kudos to that crew from multiple GUE-trained divers, which was something I couldn't have imagined a year ago. Overall, a good thing imo.

 

[texdiveguy]

George Irvine, known for colorful (a polite word for it) rants on various forums, and a former head of the WKPP, birthplace of DIR/GUE.

I know who George is....thanks.