'Non' DIR or DIR diver?

[fweber]

Please, someone teach me how to interrupt quotes without having to copy, paste, delete a hundred times! he says pleadingly.

First off, why do you even CARE what the DIR tenets are?

Because DIR could represent a great shift in diving culture and training if it could capture the interest of more divers. But, to do that it needs to iron out a few issues that currently alienate a good percentage of the diving population. There is room for improvement to the current DIR system that could result in more divers adopting a very safe team oriented form of diving that doesn't compromise the basis upon which DIR was aparently based.

Because If you reject them anyway, what's to question?

The ideas behind DIR are wonderful. And at this point I realize that I've been presenting my case purely by using the word tenets. The tenets are in fact excellent. It's the execution of them that I should actually be addressing. There are some issues that if addressed would allow or even encourage a greater percentage of the diving population to participate in a very rewarding and safe type of diving without in any way compromising the the basis of DIR diving.

They're all pretty well explained ... it's up to you to decide whether or not you accept the explanation. And if you don't, explaining it again (ad nauseum) is just a waste of time.

I don't think, getting more people diving in well defined teams and adopting many of the skills and protocols of DIR diving would be a waste of time. Neither did the individuals responsible for establishing GUE, or they wouldn't have done it. But, there are a couple issues that continue to make that difficult.

As to having a "spokesperson" ... why do you need one?

I don't, and was merely pointing out that some of us who would like to be able to have an adult conversation about how DIR could be improved wouldn't want to be represented by Nereas.

Aren't you capable of elucidating yor own thoughts?

Yes, although sometimes, I don't do as good a job as I would like.

And if you do decide to choose a spokesperson, wouldn't it be helpful to choose one who is capable of more than outlandish statements and insults without any real knowledge of what he's criticizing? If you're gonna put something down, you should at least be capable of explaining why. That's never happened with nereas ... all he can do is toss insults and braggadacio out there without any real substance. This is the tech divers forum ... tech divers should be able to explain why they do what they do, and why they choose not to do it some other way.

And so, why attack me? I just said, "I wouldn't want the guy as a spokesperson."

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your veiwpoint, I have a meeting to go to. More later Bob,

 

[texdiveguy]

......following what GI3 said a decade ago.

What is a G13?

 

[TSandM]

George Irvine, known for colorful (a polite word for it) rants on various forums, and a former head of the WKPP, birthplace of DIR/GUE.

I find it fascinating that simply asking us whether we identify ourselves as DIR divers can produce such an incredibly heated debate. The answer is pretty easy -- yes, no, or sort of.

The overwhelming majority of divers who would generally be identified as DIR just go diving, sometimes with their teammates, sometimes perhaps with other people, and go about their diving the way they have been trained, which is pretty much the same as every other diver. Every team chooses objectives, depths, gases, deco strategies, signals, and procedures, whether they are GUE/TDI/IANTD/NAUI Tech or something entirely other. Why does this one approach and this one agency cause so much dissension?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Please, someone teach me how to interrupt quotes without having to copy, paste, delete a hundred times! he says pleadingly.

Normally all I do is copy and past the quote and /quote tags around the specific text I want quoted.

There's probably a more elegant approach, but that one works for me.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your veiwpoint, I have a meeting to go to. More later Bob,

Based on everything else you typed, I suspect we are closer to agreement than either of us realized.

Perhaps it's best to just leave it at that ... I thought you were saying you wanted nereas for your "spokesperson" ... and to my concern, he's going to have to learn how to speak for himself before he can speak for anyone else ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RiverRat]

Other I guess. Funny last week me and a buddy (both DM's) were helping out an Instructor-to-be practice confined water skills. We went for a dive after and he told us we looked like DIR guys 'cause of our all black "tech" gear and that he felt a bit intimidated. Whatever, we're just divers I think.

 

[Teamcasa]

I think it may have more to do with the acronym DIR more than anything else. DIR immediately transmits to the non-DIR divers that they the only ones Doing It Right, therefore you must be Doing It Wrong. What comes next is the proponents feel the uncontrollable need to express why it the only right way. Zoom, Whoose, Bang. A volatile discussion is inevitable

Some names just simply have baggage, intended and unintended. Do you think there would be the discourse if the name started out TEAMDIVING or TSD (Team Scuba Divers) or LHD (Long Hose Divers)?

 

[Rainer]

Yawn.

 

[do it easy]

I find it fascinating that simply asking us whether we identify ourselves as DIR divers can produce such an incredibly heated debate. The answer is pretty easy -- yes, no, or sort of.

to paraphrase a French dude I met once-

As divers we can all get along; it's our training agencies that make us hate each other.

:fruit:

 

[RiverRat]

Why does this one approach and this one agency cause so much dissension?

Couple of reasons:

One is that GI's rants caused a lot of damage and it just won't go away. The internet has a habit of retaining information for many years

Two: I think it's perceived as an extremely rigid system although from what I see there is more flexibility than one may think.

Three: Statements like "air is for tires", "don't dive steel with wetsuits" (although I understand we're mainly talking doubles here, taboo in any system) "no ponies" etc. this stuff just seems to start fights.

I've taken a lot from the system but I'm probably (I am for sure) willing to do a few things that "break" the rules. If all I can get at a location is air, I'll dive it to 130 fsw. When I divemaster at times I'm solo. I book trips and hookup with insta-buddies. Sometimes that equals solo. At the same time I'd love to hookup with a DIR team for some serious dives, match gas, diveplans, gear etc. and dive with them as a team diver. I just don't think some DIR guys can deal with that.

 

[dsteding]

. At the same time I'd love to hookup with a DIR team for some serious dives, match gas, diveplans, gear etc. and dive with them as a team diver. I just don't think some DIR guys can deal with that.

Honestly, probably not. But is there anything wrong with that? I mean, I could care less if someone dives solo, dives a pony (or rides a pony) or dives tire gas. Doesn't matter to me if they are doing what they are doing. The only line I have is if that impacts me or my dive buddies. So, silt the hell out a divesite, I may think poorly of you, do something wonky that endangers others, I certainly will.

This concept informs my choice of dive buddies, and is the reason I answer your question the way I did. I can "deal" with what you do, but maybe not as a teammate. In choosing teammates, I'll look to how they conduct themselves in the water. If I think they do some unsafe practices when I'm not looking I'll honestly question them as a dive buddy, but I don't think that is unique to DIR, nor should it be.

Your type of comment has merit. I'll respect it. But, why do DIR divers get bashed for not wanting to dive with the rest of the world? The rest of the world has each other to dive with, I just happen to prefer to be on the same page as the others that I dive with, and DIR is a good way to ensure that.

Overall, I find it laughable how vocal the anti-DIR crowd is on this board.