No such thing as a Pony Bottle

[PantherDiver]

Thanks everyone for your posts. After some in depth discussion with my husband, our older daughter also a diver and a friend who is a diver, I have decided I should do what is right for me. If he has concerns for my safety a pool session should help alleviate them. I'm in the Divemaster program for myself and to build on my own experiences and use of the GI Bill.


Decodoppler, the link you provided was actually some of the information I gathered to help me choose 30cf compared to the other sizes. Thank you.

Doppler thanks for a name!

One of my red flags is mental, last time we dove at the place an unresponsive diver was being pulled out of the water. His buddy said he have him the trouble signal and they decided to swim to the dock instead of ascend to the surface right there. When he turned around the guy was gone, a search found him at the bottom of the quarry the regulator out of his mouth. It was a real wake up call for both of us and our safety became more of a priority than it had been.

I dive Nitrox, my pony has air. It's not a part of my dive plan, I and for emergency only. I think I have a good argument now let's see what happens

 

[The Chairman]

If you are in the panhandle, then Edd Sorenson at cave adventurers in Marianna would be my first recommendation. I teach in that area on occasion but Edd has the shop and is a SM guru.

You can also seek out Rob Neto, aka Dive-aholic here on ScubaBoard. Like Doppler, he's a lot of fun with little ego and very ScubaBoard friendly.

 

[Kharon]

3. Why some Instructors on his staff would not know what to do if you were using a pony.

Actually, you might point out that an independant, redundant, emergency air supply (widely accepted as a pony) is to absolve his "instructors" from having to do anything in case of an emergency. Moreover, if they don't have a clue what a pony is, what it's for, how to use it - why are they considered instructors?

---------- Post added September 26th, 2014 at 08:43 AM ----------

I dive Nitrox, my pony has air.

Curious about this. Wouldn't you be better off, in an emergency, with the same nitrox mix in your pony as the main tank? I have no idea. Just wondering.

 

[drbill]

Find another dive shop. How much training does it require to go from the reg on your primary tank to the one on your PONY? If you were switching gas mixes, I might follow your dive shop owner's advice but not if both gas mixes are the same (as in the mix Nature gave us)

 

[tbone1004]

If they want to narc you, they sure aren't going to give a real one on nitrox at that 130ft. Your best mix is going to be 28% likely, and PN2 is going to be 3.5, which might maybe sort of give you a feeling of narcosis, but air on that dive will likely get you a little happy.

If you're diving a true pony bottle for emergencies, it has to be the same gas that you're breathing out of your tank, or at least close. You're better off/safer having a 28% mix in the pony even if you're on air, than you are of being on nitrox and bailing out to air. If you don't have a multigas computer, or multigas tables made up for that specific dive, your tissue loading is going to be all sorts of out of whack, which is bad. Having the higher mix in your bailout is still not ideal, but it's better than having God's Nitrox in it while you're breathing enriched for backgas.

I'm with the other guys, the owners a moron. Diving 50F water in wetsuits is fine though a 5/3 is definitely not the best life decision. Some people take the reusable heating pads that crack and stick them in the small of their back, you may want to do that, and make sure you have good gloves and a great hood for this thing.

130ft without a pony isn't the best life decision, but if you have a bunch of instructors and dm's around you'll be fine, so agree with that, though the instructor should let you carry it since the course outlines it.

Edd Sorenson and his group of instructors are the best sidemount guys in the panhandle *Neto was mentioned and I'll stay out of why I won't recommend him, PM me if you're curious*, but Edd is fantastic and will certainly get you straightened out, though by the sounds of this shop, and take no offense, but they will break you back down and have to retrain you how to dive from scratch, so be prepared for that.

Your pony setup looks fine, though I would tuck the hose into the wide retainer at the top, and would tuck the SPG in there as well after it's pressurized. You aren't planning on using it, so keeping it secure is a good thing, you obviously did your homework on it, so no reason not to keep using it after this dive.

 

[mrdre]

Curious about this. Wouldn't you be better off, in an emergency, with the same nitrox mix in your pony as the main tank? I have no idea. Just wondering.

It doesn't matter. Pony is for emergency bail out. It's so improbable that the emergency happened exactly at the end of the dive, and the dive was planned so that these 3-5 minutes of breathing air instead of Nitrox threw you off to DCS.

 

[pconsidine]

Hi BUDMANOK- love your comment how true.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Curious about this. Wouldn't you be better off, in an emergency, with the same nitrox mix in your pony as the main tank? I have no idea. Just wondering.

I asked this same question to a Nitrox diver - their position was if for any reason they had to drop below the MOD of Nitrox (ex - rescue) they wanted the flexibility of air - it made sense to me at the time. But I am not Nitrox certified and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn. So take it for what it is worth...

 

[PantherDiver]

I went into the shop and told him I thought about what he said and discussed it with my family and friends and want to dive with my bottle and I wanted to know more of his concerns.

He he told me it's a tec skill and that he would have to contact PADI and find out what training I needed. He said because his instructors were not Tec that it wouldn't be good for me to dive with it if there's problems. The bottle created it's own complexities and can cause problems without training. Such as what if I lost my primary regulator what would I do and I said use my alternate air source off my BCD if I had a problem getting my primary reg (or the pony reg but I didn't want to sound like a smart ass). Well, no one in our shop, students or instructors wear one. I told him that's their choice that this was for my safety not theirs. Told me adding gear can cause problems and explained how a guy go tangled up in his reel. I explained that in my open water, rescue diver, deep, Divemaster books all talk about having a pony bottle so it's not Tec. He argued the point in which my non diving husband got upset and pointed at my bottle and said that's in the book, it's not a stage bottle but for emergencies. The owner said you can wear it I don't care and walked away.

I'm not going diving this weekend that is clear and now we are trying to figure out if we can eat all the classes and pay him for all I've taken so far and quit the program. Deal with VA and such. I'm beyond angry and my husband is livid. Even my 19 year old is saying this is messed up.

 

[boulderjohn]

I asked this same question to a Nitrox diver - their position was if for any reason they had to drop below the MOD of Nitrox (ex - rescue) they wanted the flexibility of air - it made sense to me at the time. But I am not Nitrox certified and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn. So take it for what it is worth...

If you are using a pony bottle as intended, to supply you with the gas you need to reach the surface in an emergency, and you are doing only NDL dives, then air is plenty good enough. More importantly, it will be plenty good enough for any NDL dive you are going to do. You will not be giving it a new fill every time you dive, so it will be an appropriate rescue gas for any situation. If you fill it with nitrox 36 to match your back gas for a planned 80 foot dive, what are you going to do the next day when you plan to go to 110 feet on a different dive?