No such thing as a Pony Bottle

[Jim Lapenta]

This shop owner is so full of crap that it's spewing from his mouth. I require my aow students to sling a 30 or 40 cu ft stage. They are trained in its use on the first dive. Deep course? 95 cu ft tank minimum, 30 or 40 cu ft stage, doubles, or sidemount. To have you do a deep course without a redundant air supply is reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous in my opinion. Making you do 50 degree water in anything less than a 7 mil or drysuit is damn near criminal. You need to warn people about this shop. They are going to get somebody killed.

 

[BUDMANOK]

There, how's that for a rant?

perfectly within your right. see how that works? I don't need your permission or ok. It's my business not yours. When I dive with ops I make the choice to follow their rules or I don't dive with them.

 

[Keith.M]

Well it is definitely mentioned in the PADI Deep diving manual.

 

[spectrum]

Does the shop sell spare air devices?

As for the hassle with the pony, idiot was the first term that came to my mind.

Pete

 

[Colliam7]

I'm now sitting in the PADI deep diver class where it talks about oh what's this?! Pony Bottles or Alternative Air Source.

Yes, pony bottles are supposed to be discussed in the Deep Diver specialty course. You may want to ask the owner how he would have you interpret a statement such as the following: 'You may want to consider a pony bottle - an independent air source that provides additional air; it helps assure that you have ample gas to reach the surface safely in an emergency.' (A statement taken directly from the Instructor Guide for the DD course.) I would also ask him what kind of 'Emergency Backup air supply' (required equipment for the Instructor teaching Deep Diver) will be used by the Instructor in the course, and if this is the equipment that you, as a Deep Diver student will use to meet the Dive Three performance requirement, 'Perform an 8-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 15 feet . . . while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute . . . '.

I'm being told we need to meet a required 130feet in 50 degree water because they want us to be narc'd and know how it feels. I have a farmer john wet suit 3/5, I know I'm going to be cold and narc'd because I did a 100feet at the same place in 54 and was shivering the whole dive. I wanted my "bailout" for this dive. I have red flags going off everywhere but all the instructors have done this same dive so if they can do it I should too.

Several thoughts about this come to mind. As others have mentioned, going to 130 feet is not a stipulated course performance requirement. A depth of 130 feet is the maximum allowed in the course. But, reaching a depth of 130 feet may be part of the shop's usual and customary approach to conducting the course, and that is their prerogative. Personally, I think it is a good idea to have Deep Diver students go to the maximum depth, if conditions permit, and I tell Deep Diver students before we get to the OW dives in my course that they will go to a depth of 130 feet, on Dive Three or Dive Four, or both. I don't see any problem with that. I also don't see any problem with conducting the dives in cold water - sometimes that is all that is available. I cannot imagine that you are being required to do the dive in a 3/5 mm wetsuit. What you wear should be up to you. If you are concerned about being cold, then you should rent / borrow / buy whatever exposure protection is appropriate for the conditions.

 

[PantherDiver]

This is my set up.


3/5 is all my wetsuit is, his shop doesn't have much and I'm short and fat so the wetsuits he has don't fit. I think from what I gather is to find out exactly what his concern is with his instructors and point out PADI. The Deep Diver specialty instructor leaves their bottle hooked at 15 feet and does not take anything with them.

 

[fire_diver]

If it's clipped to a line and left behind it's no longer a redundant safety device. It then becomes a stage or deco bottle depending on your intent, but if you can't breath from it during an emergency at 130ft it's completely useless and you should flee any instructor who doesn't understand that very basic concept.

 

[OkByMe]

Ditch the pony, since that seems to be a peeve of his. Show up side-mounted with a couple 100's and see what he has to say about that. Them some BIG ponies..

 

[PantherDiver]

Haha! Actually, I plan to go sidemount once I finish Divemaster. Of course he and I are bumping heads over that since none of his instructors are sidemount instructors. So that means I would go to another shop. Any good instructors in Florida panhandle?

The whole issue with the bottle is, I want to be safe. I've been left alone, I've been in poor vis water and easily lost my buddy, having a kid made safety a lot more important and I want to be able to save my own butt if I can. Believe me, I would love to spend what I spent for this on my kid. However, it doesn't hurt to have and if I never ever need it, then great. It only takes once for all hell to break loose and for a second wish I had it and then wish no more as I'm feeding the fish.

 

[DENLASCUBA]

From looking at your set-up I'm just wondering if he is concerned about how the bail out is slung or just doesn't want it at all. First I understand he is not attempting to dive sidemount but maybe the instructor sees it that way for some reason? How long have you been diving with this shop/ instructor, he may think you will use the bail out as a spare tank for you to stay down longer instead of the purpose of bail out and returning to the surface. If he thinks you are not properly trained then as a good instructor teaching a DM course he should explain further as to why and what the proper training is. So I would go that route and also explain it is your life what will it take to be properly trained in his opinion. The only training really should be him going over proper attachment, securing hoses, pre-dive safety checks, ect. As an instructor I would never say no to a bail-out unless I saw issues with the set-up and then I would help them to correct the issue if able to do so at that time.