No LDS, Where to Get Tank Refilled?

[John_B]

Already available online is the dry part of PADI courses.

Just for the sake of accuracy...

PADI didn't invent the online SCUBA course. Far from it, in fact. In that regard they are actually more like the "Johnny come lately" in the industry. They were the last to offer the OW classroom instruction in an online format and one of the last to eliminate the required dives from their basic Nitrox certification.

Sarcasm is always more biting when it represents some level of reality. There are valid reasons to take PADI to task, but online courses isn't one of them.

 

[Oxy]

I didn't write a check!. I made a statement that did not identify PADI as the inventor of online SCUBA classes. It identified anyone with money and a keyboard as capable of enrolling in and possibly completing a class in SCUBA. The only thing missing would be a shady character with a backyard pool and a camera willing to sign off a certificate for cash.
Oh did I just say something that just won't happen? I'm willing to bet it already has.
I was not pointing blame at PADI, I plan on taking a PADI course "in person". If I get the impression it is nothing but a certification chop-shop out to collect cash, I will report my findings and go to another shop and start over. But this LDS has been here for a long time so don't rip me a new hole for mentioning chop-shop. As for a website, you tell me where the server is. You tell me how to hold a byte responsible for insuring the student knows. I don't want to find out somewhere around a half tank that my "instabuddy" is really a virtualbuddy that has to query his blackberry for instructions on OOA procedures.

 

[Thalassamania]

Once there's no LDS in an area how long do you think a non-diving facility will be prepared to use (and wear out) its equipment for divers? Not too long.

As long as they can make money doing so. Maybe even a dash longer than that.

This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere, and a surprising number of people don't seem to have thought it through that an LDS needs profit to survive in the face of very high costs. If people buy their goodies over the internet the LDS makes nothing and closure will probably be the result. No available air is a direct consequence.

There are two things that an LDS needs to survive, one is good management, but the other is location. If you can't get your tank filled because your local LDS closed, the odds are that close to where you are willing to drive to dive there will be an LDS that will be happy to fill your tanks. If there isn't, the odds are that the diving's really not that good. If you live in CT and your diving between there and the Cape and Boston, there are lots of shops in that triangle.

 

[peterbj7]

I can think of some excellent and highly regarded dive sites in the UK that used to have LDS's and compressors nearby, but which now don't have one within 100 miles. I can think of similar stories elsewhere. I am told of areas in the US PNW that have superb diving but now no LDS anywhere near - the PNW has been particularly badly hit by LDS closures.

I was talking to a tour organiser today, and she said that several parts of the world that she used to take groups now have no diving, usually because the last dive shop has closed.

There is a third thing needed for an LDS to survive - customers prepared to pay enough to cover costs and provide an acceptable profit. Here in Belize we are warned that fuel is about to go up by 50%, which will necessitate a large increase in dive prices. Diver numbers are already down because cheaper (though not better) diving is available to the north or the south. Once diver numbers are such that there aren't enough to cover costs the dive center closes.

 

[peterbj7]

As long as they can make money doing so. Maybe even a dash longer than that

The costs of running a compressor are very high, and I know no-one who runs one as a stand-alone business. It's always a supporting operation for the wider business. I've been running a big compressor operation down here for years, and my average marginal cost to fill an '80 to 3000 psi is between $3 and $4. That's operating cost, making no allowance for major repairs or replacement in due course, no allowance for the cost of the considerable amount of capital tied up in it, and no allowance for any profit (do you work for no pay?). There are major operators here who have pared their selling prices to the bone, and then find themselves unable to afford to replace the compressor.

In a first world country a fire department has one over-riding concern, to be able to fill its own tanks. I'm sure they would not be allowed to imperil that by becoming a major tank-filling operation for the recreational scuba market. Certainly in Britain they wouldn't do it - they don't do it.

 

[onfloat]

We have one local club where the our dues pay for the operation of two large compressors. $10 a month and I have access to all the air I want 24/7. Nothing prohibits a bunch of divers getting together and doing this to get fills.

 

[peterbj7]

Depending how many members there are I doubt if that is enough to cover the costs long-term. If you're in a cool and dry environment you won't have the challenges we have here, but even so it does cost a lot to run a compressor. My estimate of cost was based on filling several hundred tanks a day - with fewer tanks filled the unit cost would go up.

I'm assuming the compressor is run properly, with a large storage bank & triple filtration system. You have a look at what they cost to implement (eg. from Bauer).

 

[onfloat]

It's been going for 40 years. They also have tanks for those that don't own them dues are $20 and if you need everything dues are $30 per month

 

[Thalassamania]

The costs of running a compressor are very high, and I know no-one who runs one as a stand-alone business. It's always a supporting operation for the wider business. I've been running a big compressor operation down here for years, and my average marginal cost to fill an '80 to 3000 psi is between $3 and $4. That's operating cost, making no allowance for major repairs or replacement in due course, no allowance for the cost of the considerable amount of capital tied up in it, and no allowance for any profit (do you work for no pay?). There are major operators here who have pared their selling prices to the bone, and then find themselves unable to afford to replace the compressor.

For many years I ran three different compressors, each as a separate cost center. Even adjusting for inflation the only compressor that approached that cost was that one in our fly-away dive van, and that was because of the relatively small number of fills it was used for each year (less that 500 was typical). Our other two compressors ran at about half your costs (which one doing about 2,000 fills a year and the other on the order ot 4,000). And those costs include the best specified oil, Delmonix filter changes, air tests, etc.

 

[redacted]

If it costs you $4 to fill a tank, then charge $6. If it costs you $10 to fill a tank, then charge $13. But if the guy down the street only charges $4, you may need to find another line.

And if some guy is selling your $500 regulator for $300, that's another indicator you may not be in the right line of work.