Nitrox course without dives - what am I missing?

[Blackwood]

This may be why there are always rumours of PADI offering a purely online Nitrox course.

I still like the idea of getting at least some hands on experience using an O2 analyser though...

Yah. And contrary to popular opinion, I'm in favor of supervised nitrox dives before certification.

 

[Sas]

Yah. And contrary to popular opinion, I'm in favor of supervised nitrox dives before certification.

Why is this?

I know you mentioned this:

Right. I don't think the STUDENT is necessarily missing out on anything other than a dive or two (I don't understand why people who are learning to dive want to avoid dives...). However, the INSTRUCTOR is missing the opportunity to verify that the student actually is able to control buoyancy and pays attention to maximum depths.

What other reasons do you think mean that a student should be supervised on their first few Nitrox dives? Just wondering as I think most people can control their buoyancy enough so that they don't exceed preplanned depths once they are out of OW (at least where I dive, I have no experience with other locations). I don't think they should have been passed if they can't.

So Nitrox to me, is basically explaining how to plan a nitrox dive, pros/cons of using nitrox and a few other things - NOT how to control my buoyancy... so I don't think that is really a convincing reason for me to have an instructor with me for a Nitrox course. I am buddied frequently with people who are using Nitrox mixes so have to dive according to their MOD anyway, so I am not particularly worried about exceeding my MOD. In general, for students, I guess your point could be valid, but I think if a student signs up to a Nitrox course and completes it without asking for supervised dives knowing they can't maintain buoyancy, well that is pretty much on their head if they don't stick to their MOD. The shop did ask if I would like to do my first Nitrox dives with them after the course so the option is there if I feel uncomfortable on my own. But yea, I am a big believer in people not blaming their mistakes on their instructors when they have been taught about the importance of taking certain actions but have chosen to not to, or have dived outside their ability.

Also, I don't want to 'avoid dives'. That is why I posted here to see if I would miss anything by having an instructor watch me do my first two nitrox dives I do want to avoid unnecessarily expensive dives however where I do not get to pick the location. I am planning to go dive with my buddy after the course using the plans I make in class that will be verified by my instructor first and I have already made my plan for one dive site (still thinking of what other one I would like to do a plan for ).

 

[k ellis]

I really can not think of any reason why you would need to have an instructor go with you myself. I rarely use air anymore and the only significant diffrence in water is simply the M.O.D. and the expanded NDL. If anything I would think it would be just for an event of if there were questions. I will suggest though if a person want an instructor to go with them do as I did and combine a training dive and ask the the istructor if you can use the nitrox in that particular class.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

My wife and I were on a trip to Boca Raton, Florida a while ago and decided to take a nitrox class while we were there. We ended up taking an online SDI course through a local dive shop. We paid for the course, received a folder with some material in it and went home and did the course online over the next couple days sitting around the pool. The "class" was very well done and we both felt that we learned as much from the study course as we would have from a class room situation. We completed the online test, went back to the LDS and the instructor went over the test questions and answered any questions we had. Then we went through the excersise of testing and labeling a couple different tanks with a variety of mixes. It was all very painless and only really took an hour or so out of a day with the LDS while we were getting set up for the next days diving. To actually having to dive with the instructor for this would have been a waste of time. I would recommend it to anyone that is interested in getting this cert.

 

[Blackwood]

basically awareness. While I don't believe that the second you bump past 1.6 you're going to convulse, in my experience a large number of divers have no appreciable situational awareness, particularly when it comes to profile. I can't tell you how many times I've been on boats and heard, "I'm filling out my log, how deep did we go last dive". Over time, that kind of awareness can bite, and I find it unlikely that someone who doesn't monitor profile will recognize the signs of impending oxtox.

Personally, I'd rather see dives for nirtox more than for recreational 'deep' diver, etc..

 

[Sas]

basically awareness. While I don't believe that the second you bump past 1.6 you're going to convulse, in my experience a large number of divers have no appreciable situational awareness, particularly when it comes to profile. I can't tell you how many times I've been on boats and heard, "I'm filling out my log, how deep did we go last dive". Over time, that kind of awareness can bite, and I find it unlikely that someone who doesn't monitor profile will recognize the signs of impending oxtox.

Personally, I'd rather see dives for nirtox more than for recreational 'deep' diver, etc..

Do you think then that having an instructor there for two dives is going to fix someone's situational awareness? I think if you don't have that in the beginning, two supervised dives isn't going to matter much long term to someone paying attention to their mod.

The last statement I disagree with strongly. Having done the deep course, I think having an instructor nearby for my first dive to 40m was very worthwhile. I dive in coldish water and was fairly narced at 32m and beyond. I was fine to pay attention to my gauges, monitor NDL and my air but when I got to the surface after the first dive my instructor said "you guys were paying attention to your gauges but not each other, and were about 3m or so apart". He also said we were noticably slower to react to things. Now on deeper dives I always stick like glue to my buddy as that was stressed a lot by my instructor. It also made me much more aware of how narcosis can slow down one's reactions so I am much more wary of going to that depth because although I know the vast majority of dives, nothing will go wrong, but when it does, I may not react as well due to being narced.

I think having a very experienced instructor around for my first time to 40m made me much more comfortable than I would have been on my own and it was good to get feedback on how I dealt with narcosis from another person. As far as I know nitrox does alter one's consciousness like narcosis does, so situational awareness whilst diving on that is not going to be any different, where as a student diving below 30m has an alteration in consciousness, so I think supervision for the first time that happens is very worthwhile. My instructor told me when I was doing the course he has to only certify some people to 30m or fail them completely, because of how they are at depth...

 

[k ellis]

Hmmm well I went to depth with my buddy at a depth of 100 feet. I was on nitrox 32% with the mod of 9 feet and he was on air. In the ending of the dive I could tell he was a bit narced so I had to signal him to come up. I was amazed in particular that I could not tell any signs of if I was being narced or not. When I went on air though it was obvious. LOL I having a little more difficulty concentrating.

All in all whether its an instructor or a dive buddy I strongly beleive a deep dive should have a well planned dive with a buddy you are familiar with if not an instructor.

 

[k ellis]

Ooops MOD of 109 feet sorry

 

[Blackwood]

Do you think then that having an instructor there for two dives is going to fix someone's situational awareness? I think if you don't have that in the beginning, two supervised dives isn't going to matter much long term to someone paying attention to their mod.

Nope, but it will give the instructor the opportunity to say, "practice some more, and then come get the card when you are a safer diver."

My instructor told me when I was doing the course he has to only certify some people to 30m or fail them completely, because of how they are at depth...

Great. I'd like to see that mentality applied to Nitrox courses.

 

[Randy43068]

You don't need the dives. I really think that adding the dives to the class is another cash builder for the instructor/dive shop.

I am booked into do a TDI Nitrox course next month but I was just wondering... all the courses I looked into include two dives as part of the course. This course does not (and as a result was $220 versus $400+ for all the other courses I looked into) and will be two nights of theory. A few people have told me I really should be doing a course with dives because it just isn't right to be Nitrox qualified without having done dives using Nitrox under supervison.

I've done a fair bit of reading about using Nitrox, understand all the maths, and had the feeling that doing dives with Nitrox would make no difference to my understanding of how to dive with Nitrox. Once I have calculated my MOD, NDL etc, I just need to make sure I follow my dive plan (correct me if I am missing something though ). I always do detailed dive plans with air, and always stick to them... so as I am doing a course that covers all of those calculations, other issues related to using Nitrox and how to analyse my gas, what would doing dives add to my understanding? I am just wondering as a few people have said it is 'wrong' to do a course without dives. And as most of the other shops do dives, I was wondering whether I am missing out on something?

The shop said I can do dives with them after the course with Nitrox if I want so the option is there. (But I imagine at an extra cost).