Nitrox class question

[Karl_in_Calif]

Spectre once bubbled...


Complete BS. The problem is they chalk 'em up to drowning, and don't bother looking into them further.

Interesting observation.

Drowning is the carpet that a lot of things get swept under.

Even so, I am likely to believe that 1.6 is perfectly safe. However training agency standards require 1.4, so end of debate.

 

[PhilD]

As a side note, all the training in the world won't do you a damn bit of good if you are the one with CNS tox and your buddy is not trained...

As someone who doesn't have a regular dive buddy and ends up diving with different buddies, I am constantly aware that most divers have a general lack of training with what to do with any problem below the surface, apart from release your weigth and send you to the surface. Which I guess is better than just leaving you down there, but somewhat scary...

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

PhilD once bubbled...
As a side note, all the training in the world won't do you a damn bit of good if you are the one with CNS tox and your buddy is not trained...

As someone who doesn't have a regular dive buddy and ends up diving with different buddies, I am constantly aware of the general lack of training with what to do with any problem below the surface.

DAN Alert Diver had a great article by a physician over the past year or so, wherein he totally overturned the apple cart about how we are teaching underwater rescue.

It was so good, that I snipped it and put it into my NAUI standards booklet for the basic rescue class.

It forces you to ask the question, What am I really going to do once I find myself in that situation of having to rescue another diver underwater?

[as a side note]

 

[Spectre]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
Even so, I am likely to believe that 1.6 is perfectly safe. However training agency standards require 1.4, so end of debate.

It's all your level of acceptable risk. The fact of the matter is that people have toxed at 1.6 and below.

My point has nothing to do with what is considered 'safe', as it's all a personal acceptable risk thing. But to use 'it's always safe' as justification to not teach how to rescue an toxing diver is down right irresponsible.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Spectre once bubbled...
...The fact of the matter is that people have toxed at 1.6 and below.

Assumption, not fact, for now.

If you are talking about pure O2 at 20 ft, then I will agree with the assumption.

If you are talking about EANx at 1.6, then according to Rodales there are no facts.

 

[Spectre]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
Assumption, not fact, for now.

Actually no. I'm referring to a friend that toxed and died at 70 feet, 53 minutes into a dive, with the max depth of 104 and 32%.

But of course it wasn't recorded in rodales, so I guess he's not really dead.. is he?

 

[cornfed]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

I thought we were talking about a nitrox class, where you make sure the bottom of the ocean/quarry is 95 ft or less?

Good teaching strategy, Karl.

MHK once bubbled...

Karl,
I hope you are not an instructor with that approach.

Bad news, Mike, he is. ChickDiver confirmed it earlier today.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

cornfed once bubbled...

Good teaching strategy, Karl.

Bad news, Mike, he is. ChickDiver confirmed it earlier today.

Corn-Fed, you did promise to go away after that last bedtime story.

Mike is loading his questions by the way. Eventually this will all boil down to "Do you rip your students' maskes off underwater?" and "Do you dangle your students over a chasm with EANx in their tanks?"

Now run along. You promised.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Spectre once bubbled...


Actually no. I'm referring to a friend that toxed and died at 70 feet, 53 minutes into a dive, with the max depth of 104 and 32%.

But of course it wasn't recorded in rodales, so I guess he's not really dead.. is he?

104 / 33 + 1 = 4.2 ATAs

4.2 x o.32 = 1.3 ATAs ppO2

53 minutes is not very long. Was it a repetitive dive? What was the surface interval time? What was the data from the prior dive?

Are you sure he ox toxed? Lots of things cause convulsions underwater.

CO2 loading before or during a dive is thought to contribute to ox tox and other things, like deep water blackout. Was that a possibility? The only reason I mention that is because the only episode I have ever had with tunnel vision in black and white was probably due to excess CO2 loading before and during a dive.

 

[cornfed]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
The last actual CNS ox tox incident that I know of was from an article about a DIY (Do It Yourself) diver who DIY'ed his own back-mounted nitox rich mix set up, and ox toxed himself at depth.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. The last person you're aware of who toxed exceeded his MOD because he blended his tanks wrong? What's your point? That he ****ed up his mix or that he didn't have a hard bottom to protect himself from the MOD?

Per Rodales, if you keep your PO2 to 1.6 or less it is impossible to ox tox, or at least there are no records of an ox tox at 1.6 or less, per the article.

i don't know that sounds an awful lot like saying it's impossible to get bent if you stay within the tables. You're free to draw your own conclusions from what you read but don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone. "Impossible to tox," LOL, you're a hoot.

We teach 1.4 across the board for non-deco EANx use. And we teach EANx not pure oxygen.

What's your point?

I cannot imagine any reason to need to know how to rescue an ox toxing diver, since we are more likely to meet space aliens before we meet an ox toxing diver (if taught properly, and not dangled over a chasm).

So you teach the class over a hard bottom and then insist that people don't dive without a hard bottom outside of class. Is this how you were taught in your OW+NITROX+DECO+TRIMIX+CAVE+ICEDIVER class back when instructor knew how to teach and everyone was a tech diver? You're a great teacher, Karl. First class.