Next step for longer bottom times on deep dives?

[Edward3c]

BSAC allows 15 mins as the local conditions generally require deeper diving (wrecks).

BSAC teach more that 15 min deco.
Advanced Mixed Gas open circuit to 80m
Advanced Mixed Gas CCR to 80m

Dives beyond these limits require the National Diving Office’s approval (for insurance purposes).

 

[Gareth J]

Not how true it is, but I’ve heard stories of non-deco trained divers wanting to do deco dives off tech charters in the US, and they were not allowed to dive.

This always comes down to semantics. How do you define "recreational diving" in Europe? Here, the dividing line is simple - if you have a deco obligation, we call it tech diving. But I do understand that you could have a system where you can learn how to do back gas deco up to an arbitrary limit and call it recreational. I have no problem with that, but of course that simply implies that you are moving some of what we would call tech training into a rec course.

Perhaps we should stick with the stricter definition of recreational diving - just to cause more confusion! It's recreational if no one is paying you to do it.

Most of the divers I have certified over the years hold a BSAC Recreational diving qualification. Most have never chosen to take any of the 'technical' qualifications. Once, Nitrox was considered technical, now it is embedded in the core diver training, i.e. it is automatic if you complete the recreational qualification.

My second and third qualifications where Recreational diving qualifications.

My second diving qualification - BSAC Sports diving qualification states.

Qualified to dive with divers of the same grade or higher, to a maximum depth of 50m, including dives requiring compulsory staged decompression.

The modern BSAC sports diver qualification states

• Conduct dives with an Ocean Diver within the restriction of the conditions previously encountered by the Ocean Diver.
• Conduct dives with another Sports Diver within the restrictions of the conditions already experienced during training or previous experience.
• Conduct dives with a dive leader or higher grade to expand their experience beyond that already encountered.
• Dive to a maximum depth of 20m initially. Extending the depth experience under the supervision fo a NQI or Dive leader or higher, in sensible progressive increments. To stay within the MOD at all times.
• Use breathing gases up to Nitrox 36
• rescue a casualty and provide basic life support.

So although we state this is a recreational diving qualification. The diver is qualified to use Nitrox and complete dives involving staged decompression.

It is a recreational diving if the dive does not include accelerated decompression, Rebreathers, Helium, or mixes richer that 36% O2. (Or PAID reward!)

There is only one diving qualification with the BSAC that does not allow staged decompression. That is Ocean Diver, who can only perform no-stop dives to a maximum depth of 20m. But they can use Nitrox!
Ocean Diver is roughly equivalent to PADI Open Water.

When I did my Sports Diver. At that time, the diving grade below, required you to dive with an instructor or dive leader at all times.

There is a blurring of the lines.
A BSAC Sports Diver depth restriction change if they complete the Twinset course.
If as a sports diver you choose to step on to the technical training rung, things change again. The technical qualifications include ADP, Mixed Gas, CCR etc.

The fact that some American charter skippers are unaware that some recreational diving qualifications DO qualify the diver to do staged decompression and use Nitrox as a breathing gas, is a problem with American charter skippers. In fairness, it is not reasonable to expect a charter skipper to understand each and every diving agency qualification.

It is only the US Diver recreational training agencies that have an issue with dives involving staged decompression. Most of the other diver training agencies see it as part of the standard recreational diving qualifications.


Gareth

 

[Mike1967]

BSAC teach more that 15 min deco.
Advanced Mixed Gas open circuit to 80m
Advanced Mixed Gas CCR to 80m

Surely you're not saying those are Rec courses?

 

[Edward3c]

Surely you're not saying those are Rec courses?

Yes, all courses run by BSAC are for recreation (i.e. for fun) not to make a living from.

 

[Angelo Farina]

But I can see the advantage of this approach to teaching OW divers, assuming that we are no longer doing the six week long YMCA style entry-level courses that were taught in the 60s.

6 weeks????
My OW course in 1975 was SIX MONTHS long...
Ok, probably too much..
But even today a FIPSAS-CMAS course is three months here!
I do not agree with you that it was a good idea to demolish these well-featured (and task demanding) OW courses to the point of releasing a diving certification in a weekend.
Sorry for being "old school" on this.
And personally I think that the continuous reduction in number of new divers is also due to the fact that it has been made too easy.
For a youngster it is not presented as a difficult, task demanding activity, as it was for me in the seventies.
If it is a sport suitable for a 60 y.o. fat lady, who cannot even swim without fins, it cannot be something exciting for a youngster...

 

[Marie13]

And personally I think that the continuous reduction in number of new divers is also due to the fact that it has been made too easy.
For a youngster it is not presented as a difficult, task demanding activity, as it was for me in the seventies.
If it is a sport suitable for a 60 y.o. fat lady, who cannot even swim without fins, it cannot be something exciting for a youngster...

Some of us 50-something "fat" old ladies do more adventurous diving than the tropical stuff. The youngsters say diving is too scary and dangerous.

 

[Edward3c]

Some of us 50-something "fat" old ladies do more adventurous diving than the tropical stuff. The youngsters say diving is too scary and dangerous.

I’ve been asked by those half my age if we could rest before getting in the water as they’re na**ed from the 100m walk to the waters edge.

 

[Marie13]

I’ve been asked by those half my age if we could rest before getting in the water as they’re na**ed from the 100m walk to the waters edge.

I take my time. Rolled my tanks down to the water today (bad knees). Turns out the second dose of the Pfizer plague jab (got it Wednesday) is making me very tired. Hit me like a ton o'bricks as I walked out of the quarry today. Only did one dive.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Some of us 50-something "fat" old ladies do more adventurous diving than the tropical stuff. The youngsters say diving is too scary and dangerous.

I know. My wife is another fat old lady doing the same.
My point is about the PERCEPTION of our belowed sport.
In the seventies being a diver did mean being part of an elite of super-trained and physically fit people, doing dangerous things without fear.
Now "everyone can dive", "diving is safe" and you can be certified in a weekend...
Sorry but this wastes a significant part of the appeal that diving was exerting on me when I was 16...

 

[Marie13]

I know. My wife is another fat old lady doing the same.
My point is about the PERCEPTION of our belowed sport.
In the seventies being a diver did mean being part of an elite of super-trained and physically fit people, doing dangerous things without fear.
Now "everyone can dive", "diving is safe" and you can be certified in a weekend...
Sorry but this wastes a significant part of the appeal that diving was exerting on me when I was 16...

I included that perception in my post. The youngsters are scared and think diving is too dangerous. Forget about me cave (mine) or ice diving. 40ft deep on a Lake Michigan shipwreck in 45F water scares the living daylights out of them. No cajones. It's not just women saying this, it's guys, too. They shudder when they see my shipwreck photos.