Next step for longer bottom times on deep dives?

[100days-a-year]

For those of you who haven't blocked me✌ Thanks for playing
Since we're all sciencey.
Regarding the use of rebreathers, what is the risk of death or injury vs. OC?
Not how much money I can save.
Not how smart rebreather divers are at mitigating the risks.
Not how much safer they are now.
What is the verifiable rate of death/injury per number of RB divers vs rate of death/injury of OC divers.
And if its significant, why are people so quick to recommend them?
Just trying to understand this concern for other people's safety.

Not even going to bring up dive travel, boating safety, foreign travel or myriad other concerns that go MIA errytime HE gets brought up in recreational depths.

 

[MichaelMc]

Not even going to bring up dive travel, boating safety, foreign travel or myriad other concerns that go MIA errytime HE gets brought up in recreational depths.

What does recreational HE have to do with boating safety?

What are the myriad other concerns for travel beyond is it available and at what price?

 

[100days-a-year]

Risk aversion or mitigation.
The reason that has been given for using HE in recreational depths.

 

[MichaelMc]

Risk aversion or mitigation.
The reason that has been given for using HE in recreational depths

I don't understand. The issue with recreational HE for boating safety is that those divers will be risk adverse and act to mitigate risks?

 

[ginti]

Regarding the use of rebreathers, what is the risk of death or injury vs. OC?

You can have a look at these reports, but they're a bit old:
http://media.dan.org/RF3_web.pdf
http://www.swiss-cave-diving.ch/PDF-dateien/2008TechDiverReport.pdf

Wikipedia has a lot of references here:
Rebreather - Wikipedia
Scuba diving fatalities - Wikipedia

There was a report about diving safety citing three categories of divers at high risk:
(1) newbies (<100 dives of experience)
(2) people who dive often (>300 dives per year)
(3) rebreather divers
Unfortunately, I do not manage to find this report anymore... so take my information with caution

All these reports are relatively old, so things may have changed now; the idea I got is that 10 to 20 years ago they were less safe because they were less known. Now I believe things are changing - but it's just an impression, nothing more.

 

[100days-a-year]

I don't understand. The issue with recreational HE for boating safety is that those divers will be risk adverse and act to mitigate risks?

Bravo, truly one of the more clever responses I've seen in a while.

 

[doctormike]

What is the verifiable rate of death/injury per number of RB divers vs rate of death/injury of OC divers.

Statistics! Great.

Let me know what you want to use as your denominator. Just "per diver"? Do you want to just look at "divers", so a deep CCR push into a cave at 300 FFW counts as much as a Discover Diving class?

And if its significant, why are people so quick to recommend them?

I don't EVER minimize the risks of CCR. I know that it adds risks (and removes some others). But why do we recommend scuba diving at all? Certainly it's a lot safer to stay out of the water, there are plenty of recreational OC deaths as well.

As much as I love mine, I agree that rebreathers are not for everybody, which is why I have pushed back against those in this thread who said that the OC should just go CCR.

 

[ginti]

Certainly it's a lot safer to stay out of the water, there are plenty of recreational OC deaths as well.

From the Wikipedia page I posted above

Fatality rates of 16.4 deaths per 100,000 persons per year among DAN America members and 14.4 deaths per 100,000 persons per year the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC) members were similar and did not change during 2000–2006. This is comparable with jogging (13 deaths per 100,000 persons per year) and motor vehicle accidents (16 deaths per 100,000 persons per year), and within the range where reduction is desirable by Health and Safety Executive (HSE) criteria

But yes, fun is the important thing here

 

[MichaelMc]

Back to the OP:
A light back gas deco class is an option as well (PADI, RAID, IANTD, SSI), as some mentioned. It should involve redundant gas, but some keep gasses limited to nitrox 40 so no need to get into O2 clean gear.
ETA: With deco time limited and depths limited to 130' and thus lighter cylinder requirements.

It is not as 'efficient' in terms of minimal number of classes, but it may be the stepping stone to start with after a fundamentals class (RAID, UTD, GUE). If you're only doing light deco, an O2 setup may only buy you a few minutes shorter deco, at an increased complexity. If you want some HE before AN/DP/Helitrox, that is possible as well (IANTD, RAID, GUE, UTD).

 

[doctormike]

Back to the OP:
A light back gas deco class is an option as well (PADI, RAID, IANTD, SSI), as some mentioned. It should involve redundant gas, but some keep gasses limited to nitrox 40 so no need to get into O2 clean gear.

It is not as 'efficient' in terms of minimal number of classes, but it may be the stepping stone to start with after a fundamentals class (RAID, UTD, GUE). If you're only doing light deco, an O2 setup may only buy you a few minutes shorter deco, at an increased complexity. If you feel like some HE before AN/DP/Helitrox, that is possible as well (IANTD, RAID, GUE, UTD).

This is a good point. I don't know about other agencies, but TDI breaks this up into DP and AN, and if you are just doing back gas deco there is plenty to learn without taking on accelerated deco with rich mixes. Most people take them together, but there is no reason why the OP couldn't just to DP and see if it was for them...