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get (way) more dives under your belt:wink:

This is the one thing I will be certainly doing. Several diving trips planned for the year and I am committed to myself to work hard to improve my skills. I know it might sound that I am rushing things up (and from your answer I probably am), but I am the kind of person who likes to set goals (usually ambitious but achievable ones) and who needs to have these goals to keep moving forward :D

After a self evaluation I decided to take a step back and work my way to Fundies on the Summer, probably leaving ADN/DP for next year.
 
Indeed. If I recall, the book lists a "Baker's Dozen Reasons" why computers are bad. It's hard to not laugh when reading that list. I'm sure many of the reasons made sense at one time, but several seem outdated.
However, it's still pretty prevalent to just use a bottom timer per a few instructors and experienced divers I talked to. Its a team operation, so if everyone has a computer (unless everyone is running the same computer with the same code rev with the same alogrithm and modifiers) everyone gets slightly to very different deco plans, which isn't seen as a good thing.

Plus they felt that not just following the prompts gave them a much more thorough understanding of deco and what was going on and ability to predict how to handle issues.
 
However, it's still pretty prevalent to just use a bottom timer per a few instructors and experienced divers I talked to. Its a team operation, so if everyone has a computer (unless everyone is running the same computer with the same code rev with the same alogrithm and modifiers) everyone gets slightly to very different deco plans, which isn't seen as a good thing.

Plus they felt that not just following the prompts gave them a much more thorough understanding of deco and what was going on and ability to predict how to handle issues.

No chance I'm waiting on some one with 30/70

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Wow ... Great computer... I was going to ask the same question. I have a console computer now but wanted to go wrist mount I can keep console as spare it will do nitrox and deco but not multiple gas.

I might have have to save my pennies since I'm interested in doing deco gasses in the future...
 
About an year ago I bought a Zuunto Zoop when I started to dive and thought I would stay on recreational diving. Now that I am developing my skills and getting more comfortable, I am pretty sure that I will advance to at least "recreational tech diving" though it will take a while since I have limit time to dive.

I am now thinking to purchase my next DC, and after reading many threads here, I understand that when I get to the real tech stuff I should get a Petrel (or the equivalent). Fortunately I have a friend who already said will purchase my Zoop.

So I am thinking to purchase a computer that is able to gas switching that when I get to Trimix I could use in gauge mode. I'm leaning towards getting the Hollis DG03 (or equivalent Oceanic/Aeris) but also thought about stretching my budget and get the TX1 (could not find any solid review though) since it would already deal with Trimix and I could use as a backup in the future. What do you guys think? Any other suggestion?
Funny how threads go astray. To your original question, please consider where you are in your diving and where you want to be. You should be comfortable diving at your current level before you move on, and the progression to tech diving often takes longer than anticipated. That being said, the dive computer world is changing rapidly; so much that today's advanced technology will seem antique in just a few years (or less). Basically, you'll be spending money now for something that you really don't need when that money could go towards getting more training or just diving!
If you REALLY must have that new computer, please buy one that does not use a proprietary algorithm. Get one that uses a common deco algorithm such as Buhlman or VPM. As you get into advanced diving the need to plan becomes critical, and there are a lot more tools available for the standard deco algorithms. If you want more information, read "Deco for Divers", it's a great primer on physiology and deco procedures.
 
So interesting timing on this string.

While at DAN last evening, one of the questions asked was, "When will you do an analysis of the differing algorithm and provide real data on which should be selected, and when."

Dr. Pollack had an interesting response. First off, I should state that these are opinions, not recommendations and from Dr. Pollack, not from DAN.

To summarize, in bullet points:
- The challenges are that there really aren't just 3-4 algorithms. Nearly every manufacturer plays with their installation in some way.
- For those using bubble theory, to Dr. Pollacks knowledge, nobody has yet measured a bubble. The theories are algorithms and are not vetted by the community as a whole.
- Less expensive computers are likely to not have the computing power to model a theory effectively using, for example, 16 tissue samples. Many calculate on three, for example, and then extrapolate from there.
- If you look at the past few years, many of the bubble based computers, that used to get you out of the water so quickly, have had levels of conservatism added that see to make them more Buhlmann like.

Interesting responses, certainly good information. Any counters?
 
Does somebody familiar/ tried this dive computer?
Pretty popular in Europe, Egypt and Israel.
Looks not less functionality than "Shearwater Petrel 2"
 
- The challenges are that there really aren't just 3-4 algorithms. Nearly every manufacturer plays with their installation in some way.

This is very true. Each implementation can vary. And how the algorithm is implemented in real time can vary even more. How are unexpected events, like re-descending after a partially completed schedule handled? If you miss a deco stop by 15 seconds, will you be locked out? If you are diving in the 15-30 foot range, will you get a great many safety stops?


- For those using bubble theory, to Dr. Pollacks knowledge, nobody has yet measured a bubble. The theories are algorithms and are not vetted by the community as a whole.

Not sure what this means. Certainly the physics of bubble formation are well understood and we have “measured” many bubbles- which is not to say that in a real world human body there are not many variables we can’t effectively track or model or test for except by inference from results. I think the divide is more between those starting from a clinical model, derived from experience or animal experimentation, which means they come mostly from the medical side, and those starting from the physics side, a physical model that is then verified by clinical experiment. There are different cultures within science.

- Less expensive computers are likely to not have the computing power to model a theory effectively using, for example, 16 tissue samples. Many calculate on three, for example, and then extrapolate from there.

There is some truth to this, but only to a point. Running a fully iterative bubble model is very computational intensive, regardless of the number of tissue groups- and number of tissue groups is not necessarily a “more is better” situation, these are just mathematical abstractions. You can create precision without adding any accuracy. It’s not necessarily related to the price of the computer. Suunto’s “RGBM” for instance (which comes in some pretty pricy computers) is a basically Haldanian model that is tweaked with factors that cause it to closely approximate a fully iterative bubble model without having to actually run the calculations in real time. To my knowledge, only the Atomic Cobalt comes pre packaged running- in real time- a fully iterative bubble model (with 15 tissue groups), and that only kicks in if you dive below 150’, shallower dives are on a “folded” algorithm. Liquivision and Shearwater both offer fully iterative bubble models as an upgrade. But the vast majority of dive computers are running some kind of basically Haldanian or Buhlmann algorithm, using M-values, and work in much the same way.

Thanks to the mobile device industry, computational power that runs from batteries is a lot cheaper now. This is more a question of firmware complexity than cost.

- If you look at the past few years, many of the bubble based computers, that used to get you out of the water so quickly, have had levels of conservatism added that see to make them more Buhlmann like.

True. There has been a convergence in many models- some have aded bubble factors and deep stops, some iterative bubble algorithms have been tweaked to become more conservative.


It’s a very fuzzy subject. But the variation between individuals and their deco tolerance based on unaccounted for factors is probably greater than the variation in algorithms. The idea that DAN or anyone else could effectively test algorithms in the abstract, in any meaningful way- apart from what they do now, monitoring large statistical databases- implies a level of precision that just is not there in the field. All dive computers are a general guide, they don't know what is going on in your body.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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