Newbies, Don't make the equip mistake I did

[doole]

Yes, I have a thought. I've never been in the LDS business per se but I know retail.

You wouldn't have a chance of making enough of a margin to stay in business. And in the open market, as soon as customers find a way to undercut you by 25c, you're done. Why do online stores exist? Because in retail the term "loyalty" is a myth.

Except, in this case, for the issues of air supply and equipment maintenance and whatnot, which is why this particular unfolding drama is an interesting one. My money says the average customer will be myopic enough to put LDSs out of business altogether.

 

[bedazzle410]

I find that my LDS can and does match Leisure pro prices. I have to tell him I am getting prices from another LDS and not LP and then he matches the price. I just bought a Suunto sk7 from the discount store in spain they were cheaper than LP. It is interesting that the European stores are less expensive than LP on a few items. On the whole though Lp is by far the least expensive. My LDS does not sell Suunto if anyone is wondering why I did not give him a shot.

 

[Genesis]

Except, in this case, for the issues of air supply and equipment maintenance and whatnot, which is why this particular unfolding drama is an interesting one. My money says the average customer will be myopic enough to put LDSs out of business altogether.

There is nothing preventing a "LDS" from making their living selling fills and service, IF there is a market for it where they are.

And don't start with the $20 fill nonsense. MY COST to fill a tank with my OWN small compressor (which loses MAJOR economies of scale to a larger unit) is about $1 for air, or $3 for Nitrox, most of that being filter time (the air tank does not require the higher-cost hyperfiltering)

With fills selling for $4 for air and $10 for Nitrox, there is LOTS of margin on fills.

 

[scubasean]

I find that my LDS can and does match Leisure pro prices. I have to tell him I am getting prices from another LDS and not LP and then he matches the price. I just bought a Suunto sk7 from the discount store in spain they were cheaper than LP. It is interesting that the European stores are less expensive than LP on a few items. On the whole though Lp is by far the least expensive. My LDS does not sell Suunto if anyone is wondering why I did not give him a shot.

One of my LDS's will only match prices within 40 miles of *their* location. Makes it kind of interesting, because I have to travel 45 min (35 miles) to get to them. So, I might find a better price North of me which is 60 miles North of them, and they typically won't match in that situation...and they have lost the sale as a result(even with me standing in front of them with cash in my hand)...At that point, I have gone out of my way to try to make my purchases there, but it doesn't often work. And, in that case, I'm not even trying to get the LP price, but just a local price.

But I respect their right to decide not to lower their price.

They *did* match when it came to a custom drysuit purchase, perhaps because they weren't having to stock inventory, and made a bunch 'o cash from measuring me and letting me test it in the pool.

 

[scubasean]

There is nothing preventing a "LDS" from making their living selling fills and service, IF there is a market for it where they are.

And don't start with the $20 fill nonsense. MY COST to fill a tank with my OWN small compressor (which loses MAJOR economies of scale to a larger unit) is about $1 for air, or $3 for Nitrox, most of that being filter time (the air tank does not require the higher-cost hyperfiltering)

With fills selling for $4 for air and $10 for Nitrox, there is LOTS of margin on fills.

Does your estimate of cost include the air compressor? Just curious, since I'd like to fill my own at some point but can't seem to justify the cost....Seems to me that you'd almost have to write off the compressor cost, to make it cost efficient.

I'd be interested in seeing the cost breakdown(in a pm, so as not to hijack the thread) if you are willing...

 

[Cousin]

Several of the major manfactures set minium retail prices that the LDS can sell the products for. And if they sell them for less, they can pull the product, I know that ScubaPro has done this multilple times.

Someone had mentioned the idea of mainly carring "show" items only and ordering the "go" items to sell. Anyone can do that, although 90% of my customers don't mind getting their new product in a few days. I enjoy giving them their new whatever at the time it is paid for, not well I will call you when it gets in. Again it goes back to customer service, you have to place value on the extra $ that they are spending.

It all goes back to customer service, that an online purchase can't supply. Like I said before my personal equipment has been all over the world because one of my customers equipments was having problems and I was not going to let that ruin their trip. There has been multiple times that customers have called me when the shop is closed needing something. Most of the time I was more than willing to go open up the shop for them and get them taken care of.

We sell air fills $4 for air $8 for Nitrox.

 

[Cousin]

Does your estimate of cost include the air compressor? Just curious, since I'd like to fill my own at some point but can't seem to justify the cost....Seems to me that you'd almost have to write off the compressor cost, to make it cost efficient.

I'd be interested in seeing the cost breakdown(in a pm, so as not to hijack the thread) if you are willing...

Just like any major purchase you have to look at the big end not the small end. Every fill that we do, that money goes to the compressor fund, and we are getting ready to buy a new compressor and still have tons of extra money left over to spend on other things.

 

[Cousin]

I find that my LDS can and does match Leisure pro prices. I have to tell him I am getting prices from another LDS and not LP and then he matches the price.

I think that is a chicken **** thing to do.

 

[SterlingDiver]

I always enjoy the personal touch of a local business and want to support my local community. Let me say first that we have 4 LDS in about 50 miles of here and so far I haven't figured out how to have a decent relationship from any of them. So to satisfy my dive habit I have been using online sources.

I have placed 3 orders with LP in the last 6 months. One went well as planned, but the last two have had significant problems. Not too good of percentages. As the end consumer, obviously, I am going to make my buying choices based on my experiance and not on LP company wide averages.

I ordered $350 worth of odds and ends Dec. 12, online, I finally received that order on 1-13-04. A snorkle and knife from the order are defective. The knife looked used and abused. I spoke to customer service four times during the last transaction and they lied to me three of those times. The fourth time they let me know if I was unhappy, tough! return the order when it comes. Of course they had my money the whole time during this poor experiance.

Anyway, I have had all of the fun I can take for a while with LP. We will see if they can replace the defective items any quicker then they shipped the original order.

BTW, I amazed at how good the LDS options are for you in FL, CA, etc. (competition!, it is a good thing) I suspect that the majority who are big proponents of their LDS come from these areas. I don't think that is the case in other parts of the country. I am a fulltime business consultant and have never seen such a poorly managed sector as the LDS are here.

My .02.

SterlingDiver

 

[Genesis]

Does your estimate of cost include the air compressor? Just curious, since I'd like to fill my own at some point but can't seem to justify the cost....Seems to me that you'd almost have to write off the compressor cost, to make it cost efficient.

I'd be interested in seeing the cost breakdown(in a pm, so as not to hijack the thread) if you are willing...

No, it does not. My rough calculations say that I will "break even" on the entire fill station for Nitrox mixing in 500-600 fills, given the commercial cost of Nitrox fills around here, in that the compressor will be fully paid for. (Now in my case, that will likely be about 400 actual fills, since some of those will be doubles - of course at the LDS they charge double for doubles!)

BTW, at that point the compressor will have about 250 hours on it; the first expected real maintenance is not due until 500 hours. As such, provided that I take care of it, the compressor hasn't really depreciated in terms of value much - if at all.

BTW a large part of the cost of my fill station is due to my filling Nitrox, which requires a second-stage filter (a Hyperfilter); the device itself is expensive and so are the cartridges that go in it. Without that costs would be much lower on the equipment ($2500 .vs. $4000, roughly) and so would operating expenses (the H/F stack time alone is about $1/tank for the usage of the cartridge that goes in the unit.)

The other "big deal" about having your own is that you can fill tanks whenever you want - YOUR "LDS" is never closed. If you're interested in where I got my unit and why I bought it, PM me or start a new thread - that would be a MAJOR hijack

BTW, to un-hijack my hijack, I order from LP all the time. I've had exactly one problem with them (a product that was defective from the factory) and they swapped it immediately, and threw in a "save a dive kit" to compensate me for the return shipping of the defective item. I have probably placed 10 orders with LP over the last year, so that's pretty good.