Newbies, Don't make the equip mistake I did

[doole]

There is nothing preventing a "LDS" from making their living selling fills and service, IF there is a market for it where they are.

And don't start with the $20 fill nonsense. MY COST to fill a tank with my OWN small compressor (which loses MAJOR economies of scale to a larger unit) is about $1 for air, or $3 for Nitrox, most of that being filter time (the air tank does not require the higher-cost hyperfiltering)

With fills selling for $4 for air and $10 for Nitrox, there is LOTS of margin on fills.

Although I really have no idea what you're talking about, I believe I'll start with whatever I feel like starting with.

When you arrived at your rather amusing numbers, did you capitalize the cost of the compressor? How about rent on the space it occupies? Maintenance? Cost of ownership? Depreciation?

 

[Genesis]

Although I really have no idea what you're talking about, I believe I'll start with whatever I feel like starting with.

When you arrived at your rather amusing numbers, did you capitalize the cost of the compressor? How about rent on the space it occupies? Maintenance? Cost of ownership? Depreciation?

What's amusing about them? I have analyzed the costs quite fully.

Rent on the space it occupies? Did 'ya look at the picture? It requires about 10 square feet. Gee, that's a lot..... Should I rent myself a piece of my garage?

Capitalization of the cost of the unit and depreciation are the same thing; nice try. Cost of ownership (operating expenses, including filter time, electricity, oil, a maintenance deferrment, etc) are indeed included in those figures. The huge majority of the cost is in filter demurrage, with Nitrox being more expensive simply because you have TWO filters being consumed, and the second one (the hyperfilter) has expensive cartridges.

The actual imputed capital cost is, of course, linked to its depreciation, which is entirely dependant on what you could sell it for tomorrow if you bought it today. I suspect that I could almost recover the entire purchase price of my setup right now were I to decide to stop diving and put it on eBAY.

As I pointed out, applying the entire "difference" between the cost-of-operation number for fills and the "retail price" to the capital cost results in a unit with about 250 hours on it that is completely paid for and which is less than halfway to its first expected significant maintenance expense (a valve inspection and potentially replacement.) Since these units typically will run 2000 hours or more before a major overhaul is required, it will be entirely capitalized by the time it has about 10% of its life-cycle hours consumed!

If you'd like to start a new thread I'll be happy to post the entire analysis.

You sound like a pizzed off dive-shop owner trying to discourage people from becoming self-sufficient. Am I correct?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So has this thread been thoroughly hijacked yet?

For my own part, I have no interest in putting a compressor in my garage ... not sure what the point is here.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[doole]

You sound like a pizzed off dive-shop owner trying to discourage people from becoming self-sufficient. Am I correct?

Er - pretty much not at all. As I have already (rather clearly) pointed out, I am not a dive shop owner. Nor am I pissed off. And that's just for starters.

Let's try and stay friendly, though; I'd love to own a compressor too but I don't think it would hurt to try to be a little more informed about the true costs, just to be fair to LDSs as much as anything.

In my world, cost of ownership has no bearing at all on depreciation. Also, "10 square feet" is admittedly not much, but it's not nothing. Around here, in fact, in a retail setting, it's about $160 a month!

I suppose you didn't factor in the time you spent procuring and installing the thing, either, did you? And unless you consider your time valueless, you should.

There's much more. But I've made my point. (I hope.)

 

[Genesis]

Yes, BUT.

A cost that I don't incur is not a real cost. That someone ELSE incurs a given cost doesn't make it a cost for me.

The cost of ownership, if there is no actual depreciation, is simply the time value of the money spent (e.g. what you'd pay to borrow it, perpetually, or what you'd make off it if you had it invested elsewhere, if you paid cash.) As I pointed out, I am already accounting for the acquisition cost in my "time to repay" computation.

My "cost of operation" is indeed accurate. If you wish to dispute that, then itemize how you think it breaks down and I'll be happy to post the actual numbers from the last year's operation of my unit.

Indeed, the reason that some businesses outcompete others is largely because they are able to exclude costs that others pay. You may pay $160 for 10 sq/ft of space monthly where YOU live, but that same 10 sq/ft in my garage costs me nothing.

 

[doole]

Yes, BUT.
The cost of ownership, if there is no actual depreciation, is simply the time value of the money spent (e.g. what you'd pay to borrow it, perpetually, or what you'd make off it if you had it invested elsewhere, if you paid cash.)

Now yer talkin' my language. (Except that I would book depreciation as an entirely separate expense.)

The only place you lose me is when you infer that a thing has no value just because it "doesn't cost me anything". For instance, you did pay, and dearly I imagine, for the space in your garage. THAT'S the real point I'm trying to make.

 

[Genesis]

Now yer talkin' my language. (Except that I would book depreciation as an entirely separate expense.)

The only place you lose me is when you infer that a thing has no value just because it "doesn't cost me anything". For instance, you did pay, and dearly I imagine, for the space in your garage. THAT'S the real point I'm trying to make.

Oh, not really.

If my car does not require all of the space, I don't generally build a smaller garage....

A thing that costs you nothing costs you nothing. You are confusing cost with value.

Nothing that a business spends money on (costs) have any value to me because they were costs to that company. To the extent they have value to me, it is independant of whether (or how much) was spent by the company.

This is the essence of such evaluations - for example, people say "but your time costs you something" and I say "yes, but that time would be spent in the car shlepping bottles to the dive shop." The net cost to me of doing it myself in terms of time is actually negative, since I do not need to attend the bottles 100% of the time (although its close) and I can do something else of value while waiting for the fill to complete.

My operational costs are as I outlined, and the cost of my time in the operation of the unit is actually negative compared to going to the LDS for fills. Therefore, all that is left is recovery of the capital outlay and its imputed expense.

 

[schu1842]

Hey Central, Ohio divers - I was certified this year and am looking for a regulator and computer. What dive shops do you recommend in the Dayton, Springfield, Columbus area?

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

First off I gotta say that 130.00 for your first mask wasn't the smartest of moves in my opinion. Not to mention if you are in sales you know the value of shopping around before you buy.It would seem to me you were a bit impatient and made a careless decision. From what I have seen at LDS's there are many good quality masks available for 60 -85 dollars w/o the added expence or the wait of shipping.

Next I would say lets not bring wal-mart into it because if ya by a mask there you shall get exactly what ya deserve. A face full of broken glass. They are not rated for diving and most all are not tempered.

Next find a dive shop you can deal with and be up front and honest with them . They hate it when ya look and look then go buy it all on line as they cannot compete with those prices. You will find out the hard way the expense of getting regs serviced at the dive shop ya got online. Or the added expense of shipping and the wait to get it serviced on line if they even will. Then you will wake up and find your lds gone and go gee wonder why that happend. So how far ya gonna drive then for fills and such. Where ya gonna get ya regs serviced . Who will warranty them. Whos gonna vip your tanks . Who will do your hydros . There are many benifits to your lds. First and foremost they are there for you. Don't get me wrong there are some good deals on line
but err on the side of caution and use a little common sense . For in the long run you stand to loose alot more than 60.00 in your hastiness.
Also if 60 bucks put ya out this is the wrong sport for you.
I have spent a 1000.00 and still have no wet suits or weights.But they money I spend on rentals drops a little bit every payday.Don't get in a hurry . Take the time to research all your options fully. And don't hold it against your lds for being in buisiness to make money . They are merely trying to survive so they can be there for you when you need them. And trust me YOU WILL!!!!

 

[Genesis]

Next I would say lets not bring wal-mart into it because if ya by a mask there you shall get exactly what ya deserve. A face full of broken glass. They are not rated for diving and most all are not tempered.

Horsefeathers.

The following mask was bought at WalMart in Destin, Florida. It is a backup mask that I have used personally. Please read for content on the glass, then admit you were not being honest. It IS rated for diving. It also was about half the price of the SAME mask at the LDS around here that ALSO carries Aqualung/US Divers gear.

Thank you.

(BTW, I have two more here, also from Wally World, and both of THOSE also contain tempered glass lenses and are ALSO rated for diving.)

The rest of your attempt to shame someone into buying from an LDS may - just may - contain as much truth as the assertion you made above.