Newbies, Don't make the equip mistake I did

[Skipraha]

hehe...I just re-read my post and realized how long it was. My apologies for my ramble.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

For those who think I am morally wrong, nothing I say will not change your mind. However, who's ever test-drove a car with no intent of buying it? How many of us know women (not to be sexist, but I know this from personal experience) who buy clothes, wear them to a formal event and return them? For those who have worked in resturants at some point in their lives, how many times have cutsomers complained about hair in the very last bite of the food and expected everything for free? With this in mind, I do not consider myself to be morally decrepid (spelling?). I only expect fair value for my money. I tried on masks and talked with people at three other shops that day. With the arguement in mind that I "took their advice and tried on their products", was I obligated to buy a mask at each shop?

The cry that other people do things that are repugnant and wrong doesn't excuse it.

It doesn't seem like you were trying to scr*w the LDS. Rather, it seems to me that you made an impulse buy without doing your homework. You were not obligated to buy from each shop. You were obligated to do your homework on prices first, not afterwards.

Its not the LDS' obligation to make sure that you can read or that you've done your homework. You wanted a mask, they sold you a mask and the maks works. So stop whining and start diving.

BTW, this is simply not that big a deal. Once you've accumulated $10,000 - $15,000 worth of gear, this'll hardly seem like the insurmountable issue that is before you today. If $60.00 is a major loss to you, then you should seriously consider a different sport. LOL

 

[RiverRat]

On a side note, the problem I see with some LDS' is the idiot sales people they hire. One guy kept pushing jacket style BC's on me. I was trying to decide on which way to go...Jacket or BP/W. Got the same old Jacket versus BP/W debate.....I went with a FredT setup and got WAY more than I bargained for. Sad thing is there are backplates hanging on the wall, OMS gear, wings etc. I didn't know that at the time as I was steered away as soon as I mentioned a BC. I still value this LDS, but I try to deal exclusively with the owner now. Now he's showing me H valves, doubles setups, you name it. Go figure.......

 

[10X]

Somewhat in defense of the LDS, here's what happened to me.

For years I was a snorkeler and owned my own mask, fins, and snorkel. Last year a friend, who is already certified and with whom I'm going to Hawaii (9 days) asked if I was interested in becoming certified so we could dive together while there. I decided to do it and contacted one of the 2 LDS and arranged for classes. When I started I could see that dive fins are much different than snorkel fins so I bought new fins and boots from them.

I dove throughout the summer on dives sponsored by the LDS and rented all my equipment from them. In September I took their AOW class. By this time, I have spent quite a bit of money with them and done business exclusively with them. I would think that would be looking at me as "customer for life", as a previous poster put it. Especially since I was new and they had the opportunity to "cultivate" my business.

However, I recently went to the shop to have bifocal lenses but in my mask to help me better see the screen on my C5050 while underwater. I told them that I wanted to take their UW photography class before going to Hawaii. I also saw a package equipment deal while I was there. It was a BC, regulator, ocotopus, computer, gauge, setup, pool time, and free 1st annual service on the regulator. Now, the package is not EXACTLY what I had decided I wanted in equipment, but was close enough not to quibble about it when the price was so good. When I asked about it, I was told that this deal was for new students only and I didn't qualify for the package price. However, they would sell me almost the same package, at the same price, absent the computer. I was dumbfounded. After committing myself to doing business with them, they appeared not to have the same committment in return. I decided to look to LP for equipment.

As I was pricing my package through LP, my mask came back with the new lenses and I went to pick it up. While there I signed up for their UW photography class. The owner asked if I had bought my equipment yet and I told her I had not. However, I did not hesitate to let her know that I was looking at some equipment that they did not sell, mentioning the brand by name. She then said that since I was now signed up for the photography class, she would consider me a student and offered up the package to me, complete.

I took the package, added an accessory kit, a regulator bag, paid for the class and my lenses at less money than I was going to spend at LP. I asked about purchasing tanks this summer and they offered up 11 extra free fills if I did so.

I think the point is, I think they eventually saw that my business might go elsewhere, without me saying so. I think they also began to see me as a "customer for life." We are now talking additional training and equipment and I'm happy to continue to do business with them.

We'll see how they price out a wetsuit now!!!!!!!!!

 

[fgray1]

The cry that other people do things that are repugnant and wrong doesn't excuse it.

It doesn't seem like you were trying to scr*w the LDS. Rather, it seems to me that you made an impulse buy without doing your homework. You were not obligated to buy from each shop. You were obligated to do your homework on prices first, not afterwards.

Its not the LDS' obligation to make sure that you can read or that you've done your homework. You wanted a mask, they sold you a mask and the maks works. So stop whining and start diving.

BTW, this is simply not that big a deal. Once you've accumulated $10,000 - $15,000 worth of gear, this'll hardly seem like the insurmountable issue that is before you today. If $60.00 is a major loss to you, then you should seriously consider a different sport. LOL

My tally to date is around $8000. $60 ain't squat. Besides you won't be buying a mask every month. Shop, Shop, Shop,
Fred

 

[orangeBloke]

I can understand your frustration at paying more for the first mask regardless of who did or did not do something but look at it another way. You now have a second mask, which you're probably going to end up buying anyway as it's always good to have a backup to have on the boat/shore or to take on a deep dive.
And if you hadn't found the on-line mask you might have spent another $130 on the second one in the future. So you haven't really lost money, you've saved $60 on the price instead. The glass is half full.....as opposed to the mask being half full as that's probably just a bad fit :biggrin2:

 

[MikeS]

How many of us know women (not to be sexist, but I know this from personal experience) who buy clothes, wear them to a formal event and return them?.

Hope you didn’t marry her; she was probably just trying you on for size.

With this in mind, I do not consider myself to be morally decrepid (spelling?).

Do you consider yourself a moral person or do you take advantage of whomever you can?

For the record I have over 12 years of sales and marketing experience.

For the record I have 44 years of life experience and think you should treat people as you would want to be treated. A.K.A. What goes around, comes around!

If this is not true and training etc is a loss leader to get sales as MikeS states, then I fear for the future of dive shops.

As well you should if you use them to try stuff on that you then order on-line.

Call me naive.

O. K. You’re naïve! Look into it a bit and you’ll see the fix that LDSs are in. They’re squeezed between the consumer that wants to buy things on-line cheaper and the manufactures’ that want them to eat warranty repair labor.

I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, I've asked the same questions and just sharing the answers I've come up with. By Scubaboard standards, you’ve yet to be flamend.

Mike

 

[Michael Schlink]

I couldn't hold back any longer! Everybody in this "thread" has some great points but I would like to rattle some cages here. The biggest problem I see with LDS's is they don't have experienced RETAIL salespeople and too often the owner has little or no REAL retail experience. How many LDS owners got into the business because they love diving. I have over 25 years in retail I own a retail business and I employ retail salespeople so I am able to judge and criticize people in retail. Unfortunatley I have seen some pretty poor retailers in the scuba shops that I have visited throughout the US and abroad. I do think that divers should TRY to support you LDS but it is up to the shop owner(s) and their employees to create the environment to want to do business with them. I know all too well what the internet, mail order, cheaply made but expensively marketed products, the economy, etc, etc, is doing to the small businessperson (pc) throw in the fed and local taxing authorities and it's a wonder anybody wants to go into business for themselves. But it is what it is. You either jump in with both feet and try to compete or get out. LDS's are going to have to tighten their belts and adjust their margins to compete with places like L.P. They are going to have to offer a higher level of service, be open longer hours and anything else they can do to attract new customers and keep the ones they have AND get the old ones back. Us old salts (so to speak) remember dive shops as they used to be. Well these LDS's better become Dive Retail Centers using up to date marketing strategies, correct and properly laid out showrooms and SALESPEOPLE that know how to SELL dive gear and TRAINING! Case in point: I was in a LDS. I guy walks in the door and says I want to get a BC. The shop owner stays behind the counter and says unquote "what kind of BC do you need?" Now they were friendly when they spoke but here is what should have happened. Owner comes out from behind the counter, offers to shake hands with customer, introduces themselves, ask customer their name. Open a friendly dialog with customer such as Thanks for coming in I have several different types of BCD's for different types of diving let me show you a couple and we'll find just the right one for your needs and budget. Now some of you may think this is "corny" but this is how it's supposed to work. For those of you that believe people should support your LDS I agree. those of you that think you should be able to try on products at your LDS and then go order them online, guess what, you can. Guess what folks we live in a capitalist society and it 's not changing anytime soon. If your reading this and want to support you LDS and don't like people buying online etc. Help your LDS be a better Retail Dive Center. I have bought a couple of items from L.P. when they first reared their ugly head but don't and won't anymore. I've also stopped going in some shops because they got all offended and hurt feelings when I asked for a discount. Support you LDS and expect them to support you when you need their help. If they don't, order online until they go away and somebody that knows how to run a RETAIL scuba business in the 21st century opens up.- Dive safe P.S. Any LDS's don't like what I said give me your address I'll secret shopper you and let you know how you did. I do it to my own salespeople so I know what they are saying and doing. If your not tracking your sales etc. etc. good luck. Sorry for rambling-M

 

[JRScuba]

After reading all the threads and the pros and cons it seems to me everyone should read what his intent was. When I read his thread it sounds Oh so familiar how people in all walks of life get taken advantage of. All he was trying to do was inform new divers buying gear to do their research and shop around and ask experienced divers what they thought.
This sport, do to the equipment being life support, is to say the least expensive. Yep, I agree he could of, should of and probable would of is a life lesson we all go through. The LDS sales person that sold him the mask WAS ONLY interested in the commision he/she would be getting. Yes, I had this experience being new to diving also, learned my lesson. I also had an LDS person take the opposite approach and discussed the different products and their costs. Also asked me what type of diving I would be doing and steered me to the lower cost items.
For those that jumped on him because you work in or feel everyone should support a local dive shop and pay through the nose, I feel sorry for you.
Respect for a new or old diver is what will bring people back to a LDS, instead of trying to drain someones checkbook. Say what you want but EVERYONE wants to get the best price for what they purchase. Reasonable sale practices brings them back. If you read his threads that LDS lost a customer and rightly so. Not all LDS's are bad and the ones that are don't last long.


Support our Armed Forces.

 

[grazie42]

Ok, now I want to get involved as well...
First of I think Scipraha has a valid point, if your LDS is just going to suck you dry and leave you nothing in return then they dont deserve your business...
What my LDS offers me that online stores dont/cant offer is superior service, courses and good advice when I need it...Just an example...About a year after I bought one of their old school equipment sets my hoses started leaking, now they could have just told me that thats what happens when gear gets old and used, instead they replaced my old hoses at no extra cost and gave me an free airfill for my trouble...When I needed something after closing (because I was leaving on a divetrip early day after) they opened the store just for me...Thats the kind of service that an online shop will never be able to give me...My LDS has my business even if they are a bit more expensive than shopping online