MechDiver:
Mechdiver and I agree on something. To scarey.
Fred
Newbies, Don't make the equip mistake I did
- Thread starter Skipraha
- Start date
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Mechdiver and I agree on something. To scarey.
Fred
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That's what I was thinking ... a quality mask shouldn't run you more than $75 or $80. Yes, there's $50 snorkels out there ... but I'd advise new divers to purchase the cheapest, simplest snorkel you can (unless you're planning a lot of warm-water trips where you'll actually find a use for it).
For most cold-water divers, a snorkel is next to useless once you complete your training ... because you'll typically be diving in conditions where there just isn't a whole lot of snorkelling to be had. They make you wear it in OW clase so you'll learn how to use one ... but most divers I know just take it off once they've completed their initial training.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
fgray1:
Actually in a reasonable analogy this time, fresh over from UK i started working here, didnt have much time to find a car, was told many things about buying 2nd hand over here (all my cars in UK were 2nd hand), so ended up buying a new automatic (hate autos, prefer manual - again recommendation for the "terrible traffic in Orlando" - much smoother here than London!) Nissna Sentra at what i thought was a reasonable price of $14,500, then they added the fees on etc, tax other stuff - it ended up being $17k or thereabouts when i finally ended up with it. I am just about at the breakeven point after 2 years of paying it back. That was a around sticker price, but the dealer lied when they said it was bearly above invoice price. Talk about newbie sucker! I have since learnt that 2nd hand cars are just as ok over here as back in UK and that i can barter down some - lesson learned, now waiting to get me a 2nd hand pick-up to tote all my dive gear around in!!! I didnt have that much time to find the online equivalent price, nor the recommended price as i had no car and had only been in the country 2 days before starting work, no internet access til i started working either. The price (before all surcharges) sounded reasonable in GBP how was i to know?
LowTide
Contributor
MikeS:
Too bad you don't live near Leisure Pro or scuba.com. They both have store fronts and have to pay for space just like a LDS. I am close to scuba.com, I go there and try on stuff and check it out before I buy it, plus their prices are much better and they offer full mfgr warranty - they are authorized resellers for all the products they sell.
LowTide
Contributor
docmartin:
You are cracking me up, hehe
Unfortunately, those are the chepest prices in the stores of the LDSs around here....and they just go up from there.NWGratefulDiver:
now waiting to get me a 2nd hand pick-up to tote all my dive gear around in!!
After you buy all the gear you need a pick up or van to haul it around and if you get a pick up you need a cap that locks so you can dive at ease. By the time your done the cost of diving is crazy.
Diving itself is cheap but to do it right cost money.
But I love doing it. At least you only buy it once.
Unless you like me and can't resist a deal. 6 BCD to date, 6 reg setups, 4 sets fins, 2 nitrox computers, 6 tanks, 5 wet suits (think I'll open a used dive shop) 4 lights, ( 2 HID), 3 boots, 2 gloves,5 masks, (crazy) 3 snorkels (useless) 4 reels, 2 flags, dive kayak, (anyone want to buy some gear) 2 hoods. Ithink that covers it. ( I think I need a shrink) Oh Ya 1 pick up with cap!!!!
Well
I think I'll call the doctor. I need a check up from the neck up
Fred
After you buy all the gear you need a pick up or van to haul it around and if you get a pick up you need a cap that locks so you can dive at ease. By the time your done the cost of diving is crazy.
Diving itself is cheap but to do it right cost money.
But I love doing it. At least you only buy it once.
Unless you like me and can't resist a deal. 6 BCD to date, 6 reg setups, 4 sets fins, 2 nitrox computers, 6 tanks, 5 wet suits (think I'll open a used dive shop) 4 lights, ( 2 HID), 3 boots, 2 gloves,5 masks, (crazy) 3 snorkels (useless) 4 reels, 2 flags, dive kayak, (anyone want to buy some gear) 2 hoods. Ithink that covers it. ( I think I need a shrink) Oh Ya 1 pick up with cap!!!!
Well
I think I'll call the doctor. I need a check up from the neck up
Fred
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chrpai:
I always travel with a spare mask...
fgray1:
Goes to show it's never too late to learn...
OP
Skipraha
Registered
Several things to comment on. Just reading the posts, I've learned a lot about the economics of diving, so here's my additional two cents with a little flame defense thrown in.
For those who think I am morally wrong, nothing I say will not change your mind. However, who's ever test-drove a car with no intent of buying it? How many of us know women (not to be sexist, but I know this from personal experience) who buy clothes, wear them to a formal event and return them? For those who have worked in resturants at some point in their lives, how many times have cutsomers complained about hair in the very last bite of the food and expected everything for free? With this in mind, I do not consider myself to be morally decrepid (spelling?). I only expect fair value for my money. I tried on masks and talked with people at three other shops that day. With the arguement in mind that I "took their advice and tried on their products", was I obligated to buy a mask at each shop?
For those who say I am compaining a bit; I am. But note, in my posts I admitted that it was my error, and I wanted to warn others so they did not make the same mistake that I did. Hopefully, other newbies have learned from not only my mistake, but that they can probably negotiate prices and so on which is an added benefit. That was my intent. But to flame me for complaining a bit about my mistake is absurd. If you can honestly tell me that you have never been burned by missing something in fine-print, not seeing a small policy sign or the like AND that you have never bitterly told someone else how you got burned and that they shop or person or bank or whatever did nothing to help you, then flame away, otherwise let's gear this discussion back to helping newbie, like myself, avoid making errors when buying equipment.
Rebutles complete. Here are my thoughts.
For the record I have over 12 years of sales and marketing experience. All of that experience has lead me to the understanding that you should look at every person as a potential lifetime customer and treat them in that manner. That is all the shop had to do to make me happy. As I said before, if the shop had the courage, yes courage, to say "These items are non-returnable, are you sure you want to do this now or would you rather look around other places first to be sure this is what you want?" I would probably be a lifetime customer. If negotiating is known as accepted and for them to take advantage of me as a newbie to pay full price is not looking at a customer as a lifetime customer and is, perhaps, morally wrong on their part don;t you think?
Perhaps this is why shops are bitter about LP and others. It is because they do not take care of their customers unless the customer begs them to and so, in effect, send their customers away? Something to think about.
I think, and again I admit my experience is limited, that shops may want to review thier business plans. My perception was that they are service companies. They provided trainging, tank fills, advice, guided trips, etc as a sevice to the customers as their primary business with product sales as a secondary add-on. If this is not true and training etc is a loss leader to get sales as MikeS states, then I fear for the future of dive shops.
Simple economics state that a company with national distribution such as an online merchant will be about to purchase in MUCH larger quantities and offer products as much cheaper prices than a LDS with a sales radius of perhaps 50 miles. Yes, service suffers and there is not as much attention to the customer, but across the country consumers have decided that they prefer to have money in the product from prices savings than personal service. This is why Wal-Mart has not only drivien local grocers out of business, but also established companys such as FAO Swartz and K-B Toys in the past month. I fear the same will come to this industry unless shops adapt and add value to the products they sell. In my case, yes they added value by giving advice and letting me try on mask, but was it really $70 of value (when I was ripped off to boot as a few posters implied)? I personally do not think so.
Here's thinking out of the box, and few free to comment away. How about the shops turn this to their advantage? Stock 1 or 2 of each of the items the recommend (so maybe 20 total masks - 2 of 10 styles, 10 BC's - 5 styles in different styles or whatnot, 5 snorkles, etc.) as display pieces. Use these to educate their customers and to let their customers try them on, etc. Then, and here's where I get crazy, the LDS orders the product from LP or another merchant, has it delivered to the customer's door, and charged to the customers credit card by the online merchant. How's the shop make money? Charge the customer a 15% convenience fee or consulting fee, and make your products sales a value added-service rather than a price negotiated, inventory heavy, nightmare.
This may seem stupid, but would I be upset in my case if the shop said, "I cannot sell you this product at a competitive price, but I will guide you through ordering from a reputable merchant and we charge a service fee for our assistance? NO! I would be a lifelong customer which is what the shop wants.
This may not seem logicical, but this may even make the shop more money. First, they build up repetitive business by offering what an online merchant cannot - advice. Secondly, they cut expenses dramatically by not having to carry nearly the inventory that the previous did. In most businesses, inventory carrying costs can run from 35% to 65% of the total value of inventory on had annually. This cost comes from theft, damage, obsolence, and finance charges. Reducing inventory saves money by eliminating those costs as well as reducing accounting costs and financial paperwork and inventory tracking expenses. Additionaly, this system improve cash flow. No cash is tied up in inventory. As a value-added service, your primary expense becomes the staff's time which you are using already so no additional expenses are incurred for these savings. If a customer want a product immediately, give them the one on hand and have the product sent to your shop instead of the customer's home.
Call me naive. Feel free to flame away, but this is just the thoughts of one of probably many disgrunted customers in this industry.
For those who think I am morally wrong, nothing I say will not change your mind. However, who's ever test-drove a car with no intent of buying it? How many of us know women (not to be sexist, but I know this from personal experience) who buy clothes, wear them to a formal event and return them? For those who have worked in resturants at some point in their lives, how many times have cutsomers complained about hair in the very last bite of the food and expected everything for free? With this in mind, I do not consider myself to be morally decrepid (spelling?). I only expect fair value for my money. I tried on masks and talked with people at three other shops that day. With the arguement in mind that I "took their advice and tried on their products", was I obligated to buy a mask at each shop?
For those who say I am compaining a bit; I am. But note, in my posts I admitted that it was my error, and I wanted to warn others so they did not make the same mistake that I did. Hopefully, other newbies have learned from not only my mistake, but that they can probably negotiate prices and so on which is an added benefit. That was my intent. But to flame me for complaining a bit about my mistake is absurd. If you can honestly tell me that you have never been burned by missing something in fine-print, not seeing a small policy sign or the like AND that you have never bitterly told someone else how you got burned and that they shop or person or bank or whatever did nothing to help you, then flame away, otherwise let's gear this discussion back to helping newbie, like myself, avoid making errors when buying equipment.
Rebutles complete. Here are my thoughts.
For the record I have over 12 years of sales and marketing experience. All of that experience has lead me to the understanding that you should look at every person as a potential lifetime customer and treat them in that manner. That is all the shop had to do to make me happy. As I said before, if the shop had the courage, yes courage, to say "These items are non-returnable, are you sure you want to do this now or would you rather look around other places first to be sure this is what you want?" I would probably be a lifetime customer. If negotiating is known as accepted and for them to take advantage of me as a newbie to pay full price is not looking at a customer as a lifetime customer and is, perhaps, morally wrong on their part don;t you think?
Perhaps this is why shops are bitter about LP and others. It is because they do not take care of their customers unless the customer begs them to and so, in effect, send their customers away? Something to think about.
I think, and again I admit my experience is limited, that shops may want to review thier business plans. My perception was that they are service companies. They provided trainging, tank fills, advice, guided trips, etc as a sevice to the customers as their primary business with product sales as a secondary add-on. If this is not true and training etc is a loss leader to get sales as MikeS states, then I fear for the future of dive shops.
Simple economics state that a company with national distribution such as an online merchant will be about to purchase in MUCH larger quantities and offer products as much cheaper prices than a LDS with a sales radius of perhaps 50 miles. Yes, service suffers and there is not as much attention to the customer, but across the country consumers have decided that they prefer to have money in the product from prices savings than personal service. This is why Wal-Mart has not only drivien local grocers out of business, but also established companys such as FAO Swartz and K-B Toys in the past month. I fear the same will come to this industry unless shops adapt and add value to the products they sell. In my case, yes they added value by giving advice and letting me try on mask, but was it really $70 of value (when I was ripped off to boot as a few posters implied)? I personally do not think so.
Here's thinking out of the box, and few free to comment away. How about the shops turn this to their advantage? Stock 1 or 2 of each of the items the recommend (so maybe 20 total masks - 2 of 10 styles, 10 BC's - 5 styles in different styles or whatnot, 5 snorkles, etc.) as display pieces. Use these to educate their customers and to let their customers try them on, etc. Then, and here's where I get crazy, the LDS orders the product from LP or another merchant, has it delivered to the customer's door, and charged to the customers credit card by the online merchant. How's the shop make money? Charge the customer a 15% convenience fee or consulting fee, and make your products sales a value added-service rather than a price negotiated, inventory heavy, nightmare.
This may seem stupid, but would I be upset in my case if the shop said, "I cannot sell you this product at a competitive price, but I will guide you through ordering from a reputable merchant and we charge a service fee for our assistance? NO! I would be a lifelong customer which is what the shop wants.
This may not seem logicical, but this may even make the shop more money. First, they build up repetitive business by offering what an online merchant cannot - advice. Secondly, they cut expenses dramatically by not having to carry nearly the inventory that the previous did. In most businesses, inventory carrying costs can run from 35% to 65% of the total value of inventory on had annually. This cost comes from theft, damage, obsolence, and finance charges. Reducing inventory saves money by eliminating those costs as well as reducing accounting costs and financial paperwork and inventory tracking expenses. Additionaly, this system improve cash flow. No cash is tied up in inventory. As a value-added service, your primary expense becomes the staff's time which you are using already so no additional expenses are incurred for these savings. If a customer want a product immediately, give them the one on hand and have the product sent to your shop instead of the customer's home.
Call me naive. Feel free to flame away, but this is just the thoughts of one of probably many disgrunted customers in this industry.
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