Newbies, Don't make the equip mistake I did

[Skipraha]

If you work with your LDS, assuming there are a few in your area, you do business with them, you can always pay less than retail, and still not go online. I have yet to pay full retail and have bought all my stuff thru several of the 10 LDS's in my area, all due to loyalty and working with them on packages, other benefits like trips, rentals, fills etc.

My main LDS gives me full rebate on rentals towards the price of a BC/Reg combo (every $ i spend on BC/Reg rentals goes towards purchase), plus 15% off full retail on top of that, which is a substantial saving. At this time with only about 6 rentals it is only just a little more expensive than LP w/mailing - and i get to try it on and have it there and then! Very soon i should be able to 'beat' the LP price of the same equipment, which i might have lost had i not rented from them - they encourage loyalty.

Here is an example where I a LDS can compete with online merchant - and not just on price. I hope to find a LDS that gives me that level of service, because that is what will make me buy from them for a long time. I buy from Nordstorm's, even though it is more expensive, because of the great personal care they give. All this shop would have had to say is "Since your new, be sure try a couple other masks at other places to be positive of what you want since you cannot return these items."

In that case, I probably would have come back to them to see if they could order the product in the color I wanted and tried to work out a competitive deal. I am in product management and sales so understand how these things can work. Unfortuately my first, and probably last, time working with the shop one didn't fit that bill since they didn't make the extra effort to ensure that my first experience with them was a good one.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Welcome to the Board.

In reviewing your post, I'm a bit confused.

1. You bought equipment at an LDS. Presumably, you tried on the equipment and otherwise took advantage of the fact that the LDS had equipment to show you.
2. The LDS had a sign indicating that they would not allow you to return the equipment.
3. You bought substantially identical items online for an additional charge. You knew that you liked the equipment because you had already tried it on and, indeed, purchased it from the LDS.
4. You attempted to return the goods to the LDS.
5. The LDS refused to accept the returns based upon their posted policy.
6. You believe that you are out $200.00 because the LDS didn't check to make sure you can read?

First, can you return the equipment to the online store? If so, you'll be back to where you started.

Second, at worst, you're down $130.00, which represents the cost of the LDS equipment that you would not have purchased if you had done your homework beforehand. Of course, you should remember that you would have had no way to determine whether the mask fit if you hadn't gone to the LDS, so you might have ended up with a different mask that didn't fit at all.

Third, what does your status as a newbie diver have to do with reading signs? I learned to read and to ask about return policies long before I started diving.

I've got little to no sympathy here and see no reason for you to complain.

 

[simbrooks]

Some shops dont see the repetative business that they get coming in the door the first time. I cant explain why they dont treat each customer as a prospective repeater.

I once worked in a bar in the UK in a very touristy area, the prices in this little village pub were written (as dictated by law) small and out of the way, so you could check them if you searched before ordering and in fact you could even ask what they were and i would have told them to the customers - not my place to own/run i just went along with the job as i was young. Anyway, the prices were a reasonable amount above surrounding local pubs (in non-touristy villages), and comparable to prices in London - nice big city. So the one-day visitors came in the got "hit" with these prices, some didnt notice as they had come from the big cities and these prices werent unusual to them, but we knew they were paying more than they had to. The landlord did give discounts to the locals (regulars). What i am saying by this is that the business was set to make money off of customers who werent going to be repeaters, but gave some discount to those who did repeat and knew the deal with the landlord. Not sure this analogy is directly related to diving, but you get my drift - i think big-t would understand the worth of beer!!

There are some exceptions to the LDS rule, the one i hope to buy from in the near future is one of them. Some find they only get ripped off by their LDS, that is why many go to LP. I also go to another LDS, they know me very well now, i have bought a good deal of stuff from them and every time they walk in the door several of them offer to help me, advise me on what they have, what is new - maybe they see the $, maybe they are actually helpful - i choose what i buy, but i ask opinions (both in here and at the LDS's) along the way.

I also took my OW with another LDS, but due to their teaching ability i decided not to buy anything from them, nor to set foot in their door again. I am still shopping around for courses, and use that as a bargaining tool with the LDS that offers the rental-purchase rebate.

 

[MikeS]

At the first shop I found a mask I liked and paid $130 for it and a snorkle. Here, I learned about an online shop where I found the same products in color I preferred for only $70 with shipping. Now, I like to support local businesses but I could not justify a 50% price difference, so I bought the other set online and went to return the original LDS purchase.

Personally I have a moral problem with what you attempted to do. IMO it’s not morally right to go to an LDS to “try things on” on then buy them online. It cost the LDS money to keep that stuff on display and a staff on hand. If I take advantage of that value added I expect to pay for it. On the other hand, I have no qualms about buying gear on-line if I know what I want and order without the assistance of an LDS.

Mike

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Most of the shops in our area have a "pool policy" ... equipment that requires a good fit (like a mask) you can try in a pool, and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction return it for store credit.

This makes sense in that a mask can seem to fit you in the store, but you cannot really determine if it's going to leak or not till you use it in the water. Besides leaking, some mask skirts just aren't as comfortable once you try it in "real life" as it is when you're standing in a store with the mask on your face.

Perhaps health codes in your area are different, but where I live there are no applicable health codes preventing the return of a mask.

I agree that LDS need to get creative to provide added value to their customers. At the store where I DM, all of our OW students receive coupons for 2 free equipment rentals upon completing the class. They also get discounts on gear purchases and air fills for 6 months. There are other incentives we offer to encourage new divers to stay involved in diving ... but I won't go into them at the risk of sounding too much like a commercial. The point is that dive shops must recognize that people can buy their equipment online at much cheaper prices, and offer something besides gear for a higher price if they want to keep their customers coming into the store.

Seems like in this case a return for store credit would've been a win-win, as the customer would've felt like the LDS treated them well, and a new diver will always be looking for new "toys" ... so the money goes to the store in any case. Once a good business relationship is established, people are more prone to come back even if they know they can save a few $$$ online ... because they realize it's in their best interest to keep the LDS healthy and open for business.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeS]

So goes life and so goes their chance to get my business for my OW and any other certs.

Again in my experience, shops don’t make money on training; it’s a loss leader to get you to buy gear. Why would they work to sell you training at a loss when you’ve already demonstrated that you’re going to try on gear at their store and then buy it on-line?

Sorry if my comments seem harsh but I think your only seeing one side of the issue.

Mike

 

[simbrooks]

While i cannot have full sympathy with skipraha, i understand the bewildering array of equipment that can be found at LDS's and LP. What is neccessary and what is just an expensive toy is foreign to a newbie. I am still learning about all sorts of equipment, and still pretty much a newbie, i have already learned a few things from my purchases so far. Some businesses, like the bar i worked at dont aim to be user friendly, the "signs" arent always easy to find/read, and i do think newbies are prey to LDS's that see them coming.

I can however say that you did get two masks for less than the full retail price (combined) and if you lose/break one you do have your back up of the same thing.

 

[5615mike]

Welcome to the path traveled by all. Just does not mean you have to keep following it!

 

[docmartin]

you'll go through more than one mask anyway if that's a comfort. $130 for a mask and a snorkel is impressive, however. does it have a heads-up display like a fighter jet or can you use it to watch movies in 3D?

 

[fgray1]

Do you pay the sticker price at the car dealership. Talk to the LDS, They will match prices most time but you have to be willing to ask. Alot of people aren't.
If you have several shops near your look around. I don't buy anything on line that is a critical peice of equiptment. Small items that are not of great importance I have no trouble buying on line. But for life saveing equitment I want to see it and try it out brfore I buy it. Shop around at the local shops write prices down the wheel and deal.
Remember unless you have a compressor and know how to service your own reg yearly your going to have to deal with one of them.

Simple advice
Fred