New Vortex Website

[Tom Smedley]

Shane has lots of challenges in taking over operation of Vortex. He is enthusiastic in turning the property back into a dive resort instead of a swimming resort. The only alternative would be to place a gate at the cavern zone. The trek to the grate is a magnet that beckons all but the majority have the sense not to do it. There have been deaths in the side caverns, one that has been blocked now, but none in the main hole. Over the years they have made it as safe as possible by putting the handrails down the hole and installing lights. At one time there was an air line running down from the surface that would adapt an "emergency regulator" at the big room before the grate. I don't know if you realize it but there are several shafts that penetrate from the surface from the area around the cream colored pumphouse near Doc's carport. We make our students sign a statement in their log books that says "I have been briefed of the dangers and I will not venture into the cave."

Taking over operation of the spring is much like stepping in for Bear Bryant. Please support the new management and if he does what he says it will be a far better operation.

 

[mike_s]

I don't think they have really changed the content of the website much as they have given it a fancier look. The text is very much unchanged.


For those who don't know, Vortex was recently sold to new owners and even more recently brought under different store management. I'm sure in the long run they have "grand things planned"


As for is it a cave dive?
From one definition I once read that a Cavern dive limit was 130ft (or something close) linear distance from the surface. Anything after that is considered a cave dive. So in this case, going to the gate would definately be considered a cave dive.

Tom, good idea to make your students write that in their logbook and sign it. Hopefully them as a new diver writing that will make more impact than just the average dive briefing will. The reason I say this is that I've been to vortex and seen a brand new just certified student doing their first dive after their certification go to the grate in the cave.

Now I'm not opposed to qualified/skilled/trained divers doing it, but it's pretty stupid to make your 5th dive ever into an overhead environment 300feet back into a cave tunnel that is about 115 or so feet deep. So I'm surprised that you haven't seen more accidents at Vortex from it.

 

[Meng_Tze]

..
From one definition I once read that a Cavern dive limit was 130ft (or something close) linear distance from the surface. Anything after that is considered a cave dive.

By definition when daylight can no longer be seen, it is a cave. The horizontal penetration is irrelevant. You can go into a system, down a fissure crack at 20ft penetration and loose sight of daylight. You are in a cave. Also, a cavern at night becomes a cave.

I also heard 130ft, but I think that was based on annecdotal stuff that 'generally a cavern diver does not venture further than 130ft'.


It is irresponsible to let any diver penetrate that system (regardless of the rail and lights etc) that far without requirement for proper training. It seems people already died in off shoots, what makes people believe that the main system is safer? Just because no one has killed themselves yet, does not make it safer that other tunnels.

 

[scubafire]

I struggled with the same sort of issues with Ginnie Springs. You will hear everyone tell you something different about going into the main cavern. I have been in there several times with only an OW cert. Then I watched the extras on that movie "The Cave" where a diver explains that the main danger with cave diving (for the inexperienced) is the "illusion that it isn't really all that dangerous". How true. I definately noticed that while in the cavern. I got in, really enjoying it, and then realized "hey, if I had a serious problem right now, I think I would be screwed". I have a huge appreciation for caverns and those who dive them.

I guess it is the curiosity that kills the cat.

 

[Meng_Tze]

.. I got in, really enjoying it, and then realized "hey, if I had a serious problem right now, I think I would be screwed".

You are one of the few who would be level headed and had this realization. I see OW divers in the gallery every now and then (down the ear, into the cave) and wonder if they have the slightest idea what they will do if their lights went out, or they got disorientated? As a matter of fact had to bring one out..... got stuck in the ceiling, inflated, current blew him stuck....he panicked.

I think people either do not want to see or just don't understand that in a cave, a serious issue is just waiting to happen. Yes it does look cool and nice, the movies make it even wider spread in audience.....but it is still a dark, wet and lonely place if you run out of gas because you are lost and your lights are out....

It all seems so benign, until Murphy rings the dinner bell for the Grim Reaper

 

[Dive-aholic]

By definition when daylight can no longer be seen, it is a cave. The horizontal penetration is irrelevant. You can go into a system, down a fissure crack at 20ft penetration and loose sight of daylight. You are in a cave. Also, a cavern at night becomes a cave.

I also heard 130ft, but I think that was based on annecdotal stuff that 'generally a cavern diver does not venture further than 130ft'.

130' is a PADI thing. Cavern diving is limited to 130 linear ft. 200' is the limitation for NSS-CDS and NACD. I'm not sure about the other agencies.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

TDI is 200' as well.

 

[cmufieldhockey8]

I can't believe any owner would make the cave sound so appealing and inviting to the untrained diver. And they way it mentions full cave certification being required past the gate makes it sound like cave certification isn't something you need to dive to the grate. You can't stop anybody from going in, but why describe it like that and spark peoples' curiosities?

 

[mike_s]

I can't believe any owner would make the cave sound so appealing and inviting to the untrained diver. And they way it mentions full cave certification being required past the gate makes it sound like cave certification isn't something you need to dive to the grate. You can't stop anybody from going in, but why describe it like that and spark peoples' curiosities?

I guess if they blocked it off at the bottom of the basin, you'd basically just swim around the basin two times (which takes maybe 5 minutes total) and then go to yourself "wait a minute... I just paide $32 bucks for this?"

 

[Meng_Tze]

..You can't stop anybody from going in, but why describe it like that and spark peoples' curiosities?

see here is the thing.............the owner CAN stop people from getting in, set requirements for diving there. It seems they either do not have full details of what is considered a cave or cavern dive.............or they have other motives to not implement these differences.

I can tell you that it will be a hellufa liability if someone dies there and it turns out that they should have known better (maybe even misled) and prevented the divers there to thinking that beyond the daylightzone is not actual cave diving.

All the waivers in the world will not take away public perception of liability....let alone the guilt trip...... At least for me.