New to technical diving
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I wouldn't say that the surface is an option a bigger dives. When deep on a stiff He mix, you probably won't be conscious by the time you hit the surface and if you probably wouldn't want to be either. And I certainly am not saying that cave diving isn't hazardous. All I am saying is that dive for dive, technical diving is more hazardous in the ocean than in a cave. Some of my reasons are as follows (all of these are generalities. I know there are exceptions, I am talking "in general":
- Surface conditions in a cave don't change (there are obviously exceptions, but you aren't going to surface into 6-8ft seas.
- Conditions in the system typically don't change drastically during a dive whereas things can change very quickly in the ocean. Silt-outs aside, but that's why we use lines
- The depth of your typical mixed gas ocean dive is going to be deeper than your typical cave dive (I know there are deep systems, again talking in generalities). 5 minutes too long on a deep dive can have drastic impacts on your deco and your gas plan. 5 mins too long in the cave will barely put a dent in your reserves
- Help is closer in the caves. If you come up bent like a pretzel, you are close to the car and closer to medical assistance. If you are 40 miles offshore and get hurt, you are going to wait quite a while to either get back to shore or to get a chopper to you.
- You cannot stage gas in the ocean and you cannot (or should not) drop your gas at its MOD. You can spend all the time you want setting up a big dive a cave. In the ocean, you need all of your gas with you. And you have all your bottles at depth which creates additional hazards.
- On top of it all, you have the traditional hazards of the ocean; waves, currrents, hazardous marine life, getting blown off the anchor, different methods of deco (on the line, drift, etc.).
So in MY personal opinion, and having done the dives in both environments, you have more hazards to consider in the ocean. And really, this was all in reaction to the assertion that the majority of modern day technical diving techniques orginated in caves, which they have not.
- Surface conditions in a cave don't change (there are obviously exceptions, but you aren't going to surface into 6-8ft seas.
- Conditions in the system typically don't change drastically during a dive whereas things can change very quickly in the ocean. Silt-outs aside, but that's why we use lines
- The depth of your typical mixed gas ocean dive is going to be deeper than your typical cave dive (I know there are deep systems, again talking in generalities). 5 minutes too long on a deep dive can have drastic impacts on your deco and your gas plan. 5 mins too long in the cave will barely put a dent in your reserves
- Help is closer in the caves. If you come up bent like a pretzel, you are close to the car and closer to medical assistance. If you are 40 miles offshore and get hurt, you are going to wait quite a while to either get back to shore or to get a chopper to you.
- You cannot stage gas in the ocean and you cannot (or should not) drop your gas at its MOD. You can spend all the time you want setting up a big dive a cave. In the ocean, you need all of your gas with you. And you have all your bottles at depth which creates additional hazards.
- On top of it all, you have the traditional hazards of the ocean; waves, currrents, hazardous marine life, getting blown off the anchor, different methods of deco (on the line, drift, etc.).
So in MY personal opinion, and having done the dives in both environments, you have more hazards to consider in the ocean. And really, this was all in reaction to the assertion that the majority of modern day technical diving techniques orginated in caves, which they have not.
You have some good points, and maybe the bottom line is that both have significant hazards.
Being 3000 feet from air looms larger in my mind, though. But that's my mind, and I'm allowed
Being 3000 feet from air looms larger in my mind, though. But that's my mind, and I'm allowed
I hear ya, the voice in your head will make up it's own mind about which is more dangerous.
I hear ya, the voice in your head will make up it's own mind about which is more dangerous.
And that is why I do not get into 'mine is bigger than yours' discussions........ it is all relative and subjective.
yep this is a good way to be.
I think we all agree on this!
And for me, The biggest most demanding dive you will do is the one you are doing at the time. Or at least it should be. If my mind is on the next one I'm in a dangerous place cause I'm not paying attention to where I am. That can be fatal.
And for me, The biggest most demanding dive you will do is the one you are doing at the time. Or at least it should be. If my mind is on the next one I'm in a dangerous place cause I'm not paying attention to where I am. That can be fatal.
Flightlead
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serrada
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Sorry guys but I never ment to stir the pot and had not intentions of steering this thread into other direction. All I tried to do is give what the writer ask requested.
1) My opinion is that overall Ocean Diving does have more total risk (marine life, change in weather, currents, etc.) that's why we limit our BT while ocean diving, right?
2) I agree there are bad cave instructors too.
3) I agree there are also great ocean divers.
As for my Jr OW standing and total dives is for people to take what I say with a grain of salt. Some of the people I dive with might not think my skills are't any better than a Jr. OW either. I take the approach that I'm as student for life. If any of you know anything about martial arts Helio Gracie a grandmaster (black belt actually higher a red belt) of Brazilian Jujitsu often wears a blue belt (a introductory level belt) and I like that.
Cheers
Colin
1) My opinion is that overall Ocean Diving does have more total risk (marine life, change in weather, currents, etc.) that's why we limit our BT while ocean diving, right?
2) I agree there are bad cave instructors too.
3) I agree there are also great ocean divers.
As for my Jr OW standing and total dives is for people to take what I say with a grain of salt. Some of the people I dive with might not think my skills are't any better than a Jr. OW either. I take the approach that I'm as student for life. If any of you know anything about martial arts Helio Gracie a grandmaster (black belt actually higher a red belt) of Brazilian Jujitsu often wears a blue belt (a introductory level belt) and I like that.
Cheers
Colin
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