Trolling for a troll?...... let's not go there.
New to technical diving
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Trolling for a troll?...... let's not go there.
serrada
Contributor
It's great you have the interest. Even if you don't pursue tech diving, tech training will greatly enhance your safety and diving enjoyment.
It's not an OK today I'm a rec and tomorrow I'm tech. You need equipment and in water training on the types of diving you want to pursue and then gradually do more aggressive dives.
You should probably start by reading everything you can. If you have not already got your Nitrox certification, I'd start there then take a recreational intro to tech diving course.
Start here:
www.iantd.com
National Association For Cave Diving
Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society
PSAI:
rofessional Scuba Association InternationalGlobal Underwater Explorers | Global Underwater Explorers
Cave Diving Group
Home
Cave Divers Association of Australia
DIRrebreather - Rebreather Standards, Training, Diving Procedures and Equipment
www.madag.org
International Training :: Get Certified :: Intro to Tech Diving
Several good programs out in the market....TDI has one you might consider. Also don't be miss informed that only cave divers are technical divers....there are several other popular disciplines within the rec technical side to explore and cross training is really a great way to go.
Several good programs out in the market....TDI has one you might consider. Also don't be miss informed that only cave divers are technical divers....there are several other popular disciplines within the rec technical side to explore and cross training is really a great way to go.
John_B
Grasshopper
FWIW, the 5thD-X "Intro to Tech" DVD is available from Amazon.com if your LDS doesn't have it. Its a pretty interesting exercise to get some pictures or video of yourself underwater to compare to that DVD (and in my case, by interesting I mean "truly humbling").
serrada
Contributor
Well....not until a few years ago and IMHO the most well trained divers have historically been cave divers. Probably because they are a product of their environment. The only room for error is death. Not to pick on TDI, but it's intro to tech is only a couple yrs. old if that and training from one instructor can vary greatly to the next. I'm not saying all, but most of the latest techniques used for gases, wreck penetrations, ice diving, deep diving, etc. cave divers have been doing for many yrs. It must be noted that I would have no problem recommending the TDI course as an into course, but I would also agree with you to cross train from instructor to instructor and organization to organization to see where you fit in. Again, BUT it goes back to unity equals safety in a dive team so you know what everyone in you team is doing, how, where and why they wear the equipment a certain way.
p.s. I'm shaking my head at myself.
Given the Jr. OW status in your profile, upon what depth and breadth of experience are you basing this opinion? And how is the margin of error in cave diving any worse than it is in the ocean? I think the hazards of open ocean mixed gas diving outweight the risks you face in cave diving by virtue of the environment alone (ocean= very dynamic environment, cave= relatively static). You carry all your gas with you (vs. dropping at MOD), etc. etc. While the cave community has made some great contributions to the technical dive community, there is a hell of a lot more to deep ocean diving than will ever be covered in cave class.
ucfdiver
Contributor
I hate to bring bad news, but some well known cave instructors don't even have students complete a lost buddy drill, lost line drill, valve shutdown drills, etc, and barely spent 60 minutes worth of underwater time for a cave class..... I'm saying this first hand.Well....not until a few years ago and IMHO the most well trained divers have historically been cave divers. Probably because they are a product of their environment. The only room for error is death. Not to pick on TDI, but it's intro to tech is only a couple yrs. old if that and training from one instructor can vary greatly to the next. I'm not saying all, but most of the latest techniques used for gases, wreck penetrations, ice diving, deep diving, etc. cave divers have been doing for many yrs. It must be noted that I would have no problem recommending the TDI course as an into course, but I would also agree with you to cross train from instructor to instructor and organization to organization to see where you fit in. Again, BUT it goes back to unity equals safety in a dive team so you know what everyone in you team is doing, how, where and why they wear the equipment a certain way.
p.s. I'm shaking my head at myself.
Then you've got others (I know of two on this forum, GDI being the one who's more active) who spend several hours of in water time with a class, and cover every single drill in the cave diving manuals multiple times, on land and in the water.
Tech agencies need to crack down on this, IMO. I'm all for instructors personalizing a class to an extent, but when you take the exact same course with two instructors and there's almost no similarities, something is wrong.
I'd say both have their risks, and making a fair comparison is nearly impossible. Just as you have "easier" ocean dives, you have "easier" cave dives, do we not? I mean we can't compare peacock to eagles nest. I have heard several people recommend doing deco training in the ocean though....I'll more than likely go that way when I do my training, or find an instructor who will mix it up between cave and ocean.
It also depends on where your interests lie. Personally as attractive and interesting as they are I have no desire to do caves. My wife says so. And that's an important source. She is not that crazy about me doing wreck penetrations or deep dives as well but she is less against them than she is caves.
Fortunately I love wrecks. MY first ocean wreck dive was on an artifical reef actually. The Spiegel Grove. First wrecks were in the St.Lawrence seaway. By the end of that trip I did not know what I know now so had no fears about going into the stern on the Keystorm through the windows. I've been hooked ever since.
Next weekend will be doing Lake Erie at night on the Boland and then sun morning the Dean Richmond and one other. It will be alot colder than the caves. 38-40 degrees at the bottom, but that is where the best stuff is for me. Deep and cold. Is it harder or easier than caves? I don't know. More or less risk? Depends on your point of view and whether we are talking penetration or not.
Technical diving for me is that which goes beyond recreational levels not just in depth.
Whether it involves overheads, penetrations, or long bottom times that incur a deco obligation there is no direct route to the surface with. ie so much time has to be spent getting out, or on deco. Otherwise severe consequences may result. IN any case no book will prep you for that. I'd recommend though "The Last Dive" and "Deep Descent" to get an idea of what it's about. Mainly you need to have the gear-think thousands of dollars, the training, the experience in ow to begin with, and the mindset that this is not warm fuzzy diving. It can and will kill you if you screw up. At the least hurt or cripple. Can you accept that and can your family?
Fortunately I love wrecks. MY first ocean wreck dive was on an artifical reef actually. The Spiegel Grove. First wrecks were in the St.Lawrence seaway. By the end of that trip I did not know what I know now so had no fears about going into the stern on the Keystorm through the windows. I've been hooked ever since.
Next weekend will be doing Lake Erie at night on the Boland and then sun morning the Dean Richmond and one other. It will be alot colder than the caves. 38-40 degrees at the bottom, but that is where the best stuff is for me. Deep and cold. Is it harder or easier than caves? I don't know. More or less risk? Depends on your point of view and whether we are talking penetration or not.
Technical diving for me is that which goes beyond recreational levels not just in depth.
Whether it involves overheads, penetrations, or long bottom times that incur a deco obligation there is no direct route to the surface with. ie so much time has to be spent getting out, or on deco. Otherwise severe consequences may result. IN any case no book will prep you for that. I'd recommend though "The Last Dive" and "Deep Descent" to get an idea of what it's about. Mainly you need to have the gear-think thousands of dollars, the training, the experience in ow to begin with, and the mindset that this is not warm fuzzy diving. It can and will kill you if you screw up. At the least hurt or cripple. Can you accept that and can your family?
I don't know . . . the big, basic difference between ocean diving and cave diving is that in ocean diving the surface always remains an option. It may be a REALLY bad one, as the Rouses unfortunately experienced, but it is an option. 3000 feet back in a cave, you're to all intents and purposes 3000 feet deep -- the unlimited gas tank is 3000 feet away, and that's not going to let you temporize much of anything. Problems just have to be solved calmly, QUICKLY, and an expeditious but CALM exit begun immediately.
There is no question that open ocean technical diving has its own hazards, and it may be physically more difficult, but in many situations you may have the surface and a chamber as an option that would not be available to someone in a cave.
There is no question that open ocean technical diving has its own hazards, and it may be physically more difficult, but in many situations you may have the surface and a chamber as an option that would not be available to someone in a cave.
I don't know . . . the big, basic difference between ocean diving and cave diving is that in ocean diving the surface always remains an option. It may be a REALLY bad one, as the Rouses unfortunately experienced, but it is an option. 3000 feet back in a cave, you're to all intents and purposes 3000 feet deep -- the unlimited gas tank is 3000 feet away, and that's not going to let you temporize much of anything. Problems just have to be solved calmly, QUICKLY, and an expeditious but CALM exit begun immediately.
There is no question that open ocean technical diving has its own hazards, and it may be physically more difficult, but in many situations you may have the surface and a chamber as an option that would not be available to someone in a cave.
There is no question that open ocean technical diving has its own hazards, and it may be physically more difficult, but in many situations you may have the surface and a chamber as an option that would not be available to someone in a cave.
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