Years ago when diving at vortex, they would also empty the tank before filling nitrox. As PSI stickers or any stickers goes and verifying goes. Are there any, stickers ( Other than your own, and locals) that you accept? This seems really extreem, unless of course you have a lot of counterfieting of stickers going on.
Why empty tank for partial pressure fill? Are they not organized enough to figure out how much O2 to add and then top off with clean air ? Same reason we do not usually honor PSI sticker, unless the inspector can show us that they have liability insurance.
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 02:09 PM ----------
If you try to get the PSI stickers on line through them then you have to have a current certification on file with them. Get them anywhere else an who knows what you are getting. You can just use the inspector # to get them. you have to have an account and be logged into that account to even process an order with that person inspection number. IOts like a bank card with multi layer passwords to get there.
OK. . .
So if I really wanted to get "real" stickers, I would take the inspector # off a VIP sticker and order PSI "official" stickers online.
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 02:25 PM ----------
It seams that your standards go so far beyond the norm (legal norm) that i probably would not use your shop. No one seams to be able to pass your criteria for stickers but you. Even from a local shop ,,,you in fact do not know if sommeone stole a pad of stickers from a known shop and are just applying them to tanks. So fact is YOU JUST DONT KNOW about any tank that comes in your door. This has the sounds of threads long ago about having to have a vis prior to every nitrox fill ,,, based on the inspection was good only for the moment the sticker was applied. If a tank was taken on a boat and filled from any system but the inspecting shop it required another vis. You cant inspect your own tanks. All these threads have been around and did nothing more than create unrest, fear or suspicion. What do you think drove so many of us to take an inspection course from agencies like PSI. I can tell you,,,,, it is all about tanks older than XXXX cant be filled, its about who filled your tank last, its about your elevated standards. All of which are moot cause you cant even protect yourself from your own tank rentals. In your behalf its your shop and you can do what you want, if there is any other choice for fills , you will get the pass by for the other shop from me. One last thing . I own my own steel tanks. The are steel because of what so many florida shops were doing to refuse filling al tanks whithout thier sticikers on it.
Keep your principle. Put whatever gas you like in your tank. Just do not get upset when a shop refuses to fill the tanks. Go to a place that really needs the money from a fill. For a lousy $7 fill we can refuse to fill it as it would not affect business one bit. Liability issue is real. Knowing where last inspection was done by a real facility is a starting point of any investigation and at least a possible lead for a shared liability.
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 02:41 PM ----------
So if you paid $150 then another $15 for visual and a possible $7 for a fill it cost $172..here in NY lds it cost $169 filled, inspected out the door.
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 07:51 AM ----------
Liability is real. Say it's not to an operator who lost an leg or their life because a tank exploded during a fill. Everyone who ever had anything to do with that tank will be investigated for possible liability. If being charged $15 once a year for a visual that involves an eddy test ( using a $900 to $1200 machine) if tank is alum, cristolube on threads, possible brushing if steel tank, paying the person to do it and having it returned filled all for $15 , is too rich for someone , then they should really think if diving is for them.
In that regard you are right, Now what tanks require an eddie tast, yet there are those that refuse to fill a tank because of no eddie sticker on a 6061 almost new tank? Unless you take the PSI stats of tank explisions as being propoganda then you know there has not been any material or manufacturing problems with any 6061 al tanks. So the eddie issue is now moot. I understand the position of any shop that refules to fill other than 6061's. But to say that any tank made before 95 can not be filled is extreem. IF ou dont want to vis teh non 6061 tanks then you just dont buy the 1k$ eddie machine and tell your few customers you cant eddie those tanks. I think the 15$ position you present does not what bothers any one. Its everything else. How hipicritical is it to say you cant fill a tank and then have your kid who has no formal , legal required traiing filling tanks. Im not saying this is the situation in your shop but it is in the industry and you have to share the blunt of the dissatisfaction of what others are perhaps doing to you with thier extreem practices. Like wise your practices do not promote good customer relations with orther shops.
Im not sure about this but as long as you have a valid PSI cert and you follow the rules they will represent you. contamination n a tank can never be traced to a specific prior shop. internal cracks ect can be as least tagged to faulty inspection proceedures. and again this is not the issue with 6061's or steel tanks.
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 02:44 PM ----------
awap's post 44 is right on
---------- Post added June 13th, 2015 at 03:04 PM ----------
O2 cleaning is a pass the buck regulation. PSI admits that 23.5 is valid cause if you pp blend a 23.5% tank you could start empty , put pure o2 in it and top off with air. That very explanation still founds it self in exceeding 40%. BTW the 23.5 was origionally lower %. Oh and thst 23.5 also involved 23.5% in a vessel presurized greater than 50 psi. Technically the threat of a tire with tire air in it at 100 psi far exceeds the same 23.5 at 50 psi clean air in a scuba tank.
Yes liability is real, only because of the extent of damage when things go south. Statistically the risk is minimal in the US. 4:1 safety factor, hydro every 5, vis every year, even a lame one, and the chance of an incident is almost nil. Then there is the thing about the vis being good for up to a year. The one year is based on 2 fills per week. if you are ding 4 fills per week you need a vis every 6 months. There is a premis that even with a crack the tank may last a year so if none is seen then a crack should not progress in a years time to ber a problem under proper use. So now that brings in to play proper use. adn that is handling and filling practices, including cave fills. Still even with that not knowing the suorce of a sticker has no connection to improper handling or use.
