new law in Cayman ?

[Walter]

He went on to say PADI no longer requires teaching buddy breathing because it was too difficulate and again stressed that was one of the reasons I needed an octo.

Well, most agencies stopped requiring instructors to teach buddy breathing because of fear of AIDS. It is an extremely simple skill. The only problem with buddy breathing is it was usually inadequately taught and practiced. If you and your wife learned to dive in 1974 or before and you continue to practice your skills, I wouldn't have a problem with you diving without an octopus. OTOH, having an octopus is an excellent idea.

 

[padiscubapro]

You have obviously been diving a long time however your actual experience is rather limited IE 30+ years diving and 500 dives. There are quite a few of us with fewer years but much more diving experience, also many of us sample a greater variety of environments. I mention this partly out of your defence as my older brother is much like you in his diving career. I will go out on a limb here and guess that it's been a while since you have had any formal training from an instructor and becasue you have been diving as long as you have you are very comfortable with your gear and config.

You bring up a very good point with 30+ years and 500+ dives, this diver basically falls into the 1 trip a year diver category (vacation diver). Someone who has been in the water this long is probably very confortable but with diving so infrequently his/her overall skills never get much better than an intermediate diver.
It probably takes the first few dives of the trip to get familiar with everthing again, and by the time everything is pefect the trip is over and the fins hung up til the next trip.

Diving philosophy has changed alot over the years and it would hurt for a seasoned diver to take a class or too to get aquanited with current philosophy... For a diver like the above the best class wouod probably be Rescue.. Its alot of fun and you definately walk away with a better perpective for accident avoidance.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

I have a question. I am a new diver, and was trained by a very well respected and tenured local dive shop owned by a 30+ year diver. The staff are all experienced divers and seem up to date on the latest and best gear. I did my research, and then went in and asked the staff what they recommended. I am a big guy, (lifter, not fat), and may ultimately, after appropriate training, do some diving for my dept. (Im a deputy, and on the swat team). That in mind, they sold me a Atomic B2, and a AquaLung Airsource attached to my ProQD+ Bc as a back up.. I was reading this thread and noticed that you thought the Air2 was um.. substandard.. my AirSource certainly doesnt breathe as well as my B2, but it seems to be a good reg.. do you think the BCD Backups are crap, or just the Air2? I really liked the elimination of the extra hose, and the ease of finding it. I just wanted to ask.. Thanks..
Shane in B.R.

Not to be piling on, but for the benefit of others, envision the scenario of airsharing with your Airsource.

Do you want the panicked donee using the Airsource, that close to you, and in control of your buoyancy?

Do you want to be controling your buoyancy at your mouth, using one of your hands?

You'll be the one breathing the Airsource, but how well it breathes is inconsequential.

You'll be out of the water in minutes, in any case.

I'm building a minimalized BP/W for lite rec, and it will use an AIR2, but I'll recognise it as the absolute compromise that it is.

Not think it's some Highspeed Lowdrag Cutting Edge technology (if that's what you were told, no reflection on you).

To be frank, the reason your LDS sold you on it was it was the more expensive option with the BC.

IMO, an Airsource/AIR2 has no business in dept diving or tec diving, so I can't see why your LDS would see it in your best interest to sell you one...

PS, you guys are pretty rough around here, huh? lol.

I'd rather he get the cold slap in the face for his hubris than to watch his wife get dragged over the transom.

This place is a daycare center compared to some forums.

 

[padiscubapro]

IMO, an Airsource/AIR2 has no business in dept diving or tec diving, so I can't see why your LDS would see it in your best interest to sell you one...

I wouldn't go that far, but I agree an Air II is not the optimal solution.

The only time I see it as an totally unquestionable solution is for RB divers who could use it to get onto their limited back gas while they get their bailout gas ready. AN RB diver does not have back gas to share with anyone (so gas sharing is a moot point), their assistance to their buddy would be in a form of a sling bottle..
I wouldn't ever consider it for OC tech diving, but a diver with the proper skill set can use an Airsource with as much safety as a stand alone octo (providing as I said earlier) the primary reg has a longer hose. Use of an airsource is different so it has to be prcaticed until one becomes confortable with its use in an emergency situation.
The only integrated solution I have see that seems to work as advertised is the Atomic SS1.
You normally would have your hand on the inflator anyway during an ascent so buoyancy control doesn't occupy another hand there.. and you other hand would be hanging onto your buddy to keep you close.. If you need to free up your hand that is on the airsouce if anything it will be easier to find than a standard inflator, since you know with certainty where it is.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

I wouldn't go that far, but I agree an Air II is not the optimal solution.

The only time I see it as an totally acceptable solution is for RB divers who could use it to get onto their limited back gas while they get their bailout gas ready. AN RB diver does not have back gas to share with anyone (so gas sharing is a moot point), their assistance to their buddy would be in a form of a sling bottle.. The only integrated solution I have see that seems to work as advertised is the Atomic SS1.

I always dive a BP/W w/ long hose, gets a little tiresome on American Shoals.

I'm putting together the most minimalist rig I can, basically for the Keys.

Least hoses, least wing, least weight, least accessories, travel plate.

A t-shirt rig.

I'll probably use an AIR2 for that (and maybe a J-valve) , but other than that, I don't want one anywhere where it's cold and dark, or there's already trouble before the dive starts (search, rescue, ect).

 

[scubapro50]

I have purchased two octos and sold my AIR2 on EBay this past week. Many of you are correct that for the past few years i have become a "summer vacation" diver. That's what happens when you work 50 weeks of the year. The drop out rate from our sport is over 50% in the first 3 years of completing a course. I have lasted 38 years and have made dives in Mexico, California, Bahamas, British Honduras (now called Belize), Florida, Virgin Islands, and Texas. I've been on live-a-boards and have had hotel rooms that range from 5 star to grass shacks on the beach. Continueing instruction is find but experience has a lot going for it. As the "old salt" i sometimes want to laugh at the well trained "openwater/rescure/instructor " type that i had to pull out of the water because something went wrong and he couldn't handle it. Have you ever had to perform CPR ..... I have three times. BY THE WAY .... the very next day we dove with Don Foster's again on a tunnel dive that started at 80ft and came out at 120ft ..... the guide .... a dive shop employee .... didn't have an octo on his rig that day (not the same person that gave me the lecture).

 

[ChrisA]

Aw, now you have written another word that will start a war -- "Spare Air".

Nothing wrong with it EXCEPT. Before you buy it do a simple calculation and compute how many cubic feet of air you need to accend safely from various depths. Go ahead and do the math. You certainly can't do a saftey stop with such a small air supply and if you are down
at 60 feet you could make an emergency accent but you'd be taking a chance on DCS. At 100 feet the spare air is usless. A lot or people wil recommend a 13 or 20 cu ft pony bottle but YOU have to first decide on the purpose of the redundent air aupply and then do the math to determine how big the supply should be

One advantage of the spare air is it's smal size. It is small enough that you can take
it with you on _every_ dive.

QUOTE=shaneevans1]Thanks Boogie, and ChickenBone for your replys.. All that said, is there any disadvantage to just adding the octo and keeping the airsource? I realize that it will be jumping over the very reason I paid 120$ for the airsource in the first place, but I am now seeing your point of view here with the having to disconnect the bc hose issue. I have trained with both methods, as my o/w pool time was spent with an instructor owned reg setup with an octo, rather than an AirSource. I intend to, before I complete my o/w checkouts, purchase a spare air kit and attach it to my gear. I figure if my b/c inflator valve sticks AND my B2 fails, ive angered somebody enough that I better have another place to get air besides the usual places.
I will go and look at some more options. My instructor has both devices on his gear, and as Ive watched him, he seems to use both about 50% of the the time when training on alternate air sources.
Thanks again guys, glad to be a part of this forum.[/QUOTE]

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Aw, now you have written another word that will start a war -- "Spare Air".

He's a nice guy, I was trying to give him a break.

He really needs to leave his wallet at home when he goes to that dive shop, though.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

I have purchased two octos and sold my AIR2 on EBay this past week. Many of you are correct that for the past few years i have become a "summer vacation" diver. That's what happens when you work 50 weeks of the year. The drop out rate from our sport is over 50% in the first 3 years of completing a course. I have lasted 38 years and have made dives in Mexico, California, Bahamas, British Honduras (now called Belize), Florida, Virgin Islands, and Texas. I've been on live-a-boards and have had hotel rooms that range from 5 star to grass shacks on the beach. Continueing instruction is find but experience has a lot going for it. As the "old salt" i sometimes want to laugh at the well trained "openwater/rescure/instructor " type that i had to pull out of the water because something went wrong and he couldn't handle it. Have you ever had to perform CPR ..... I have three times. BY THE WAY .... the very next day we dove with Don Foster's again on a tunnel dive that started at 80ft and came out at 120ft ..... the guide .... a dive shop employee .... didn't have an octo on his rig that day (not the same person that gave me the lecture).

Er.... Uh... Hokay!

How bout those Redsox?

 

[padiscubapro]

I have purchased two octos and sold my AIR2 on EBay this past week. Many of you are correct that for the past few years i have become a "summer vacation" diver. That's what happens when you work 50 weeks of the year. The drop out rate from our sport is over 50% in the first 3 years of completing a course. I have lasted 38 years and have made dives in Mexico, California, Bahamas, British Honduras (now called Belize), Florida, Virgin Islands, and Texas. I've been on live-a-boards and have had hotel rooms that range from 5 star to grass shacks on the beach. Continueing instruction is find but experience has a lot going for it. As the "old salt" i sometimes want to laugh at the well trained "openwater/rescure/instructor " type that i had to pull out of the water because something went wrong and he couldn't handle it. Have you ever had to perform CPR ..... I have three times. BY THE WAY .... the very next day we dove with Don Foster's again on a tunnel dive that started at 80ft and came out at 120ft ..... the guide .... a dive shop employee .... didn't have an octo on his rig that day (not the same person that gave me the lecture).

I haven't been diving 38 years but its nearing 20 (I had 500 dives in about 3 years)... I know I have performed cpr, and I have also had to do more than once is search for a diver lost inside a wreck and so far its never turned into a recovery. I have chased divers who got narced out of their mind on walls that the divemaster/instructors wouldn't chase (too deep)).. Around '92 I grabbed a diver at ~240 on a GC wall, The DM gave up around 160-180.... Luckily the DM realized what was necessary (once he saw me chasing) and sent some of the divers up to get additional tanks from the surface staff...

I agree there are alot of instructors who shouldn't be teaching but its a true fact the majority of instructors burn out within a few years and some agencies are making it as easy as possible to become an instructor.

My favorite tunnel in Gc is actually not a moored site.. the closest site is spanish anchor which is a shallower site, from the mooring you have to head out for the wall... you enter the tunnel around 65fsw and exit about 270! (and for alot of it you really cant turn around easily, so you are committed once you start)