new law in Cayman ?

[padiscubapro]

This past June I made 14 dives with Don Foster's Shop in Grand Cayman. I was using my Scubapro Mk10 and didn't have an octo attached. The divemaster on the boat started to lecture me on not having an octo on my rig. He stated that it would soon become a law in Grand Cayman that all divers would have to have a octopus if the wanted to dive in Cayman waters. I told him I never heard of that and I and my wife were both experience divers with over 500 logged dives without any serious problems. We have our equipment maintained yearly and have never had a major equipment malfuction while on a dive. He went on to say PADI no longer requires teaching buddy breathing because it was too difficulate and again stressed that was one of the reasons I needed an octo. I explained I did own an AIR2 but prefered not to dive with it using this jacket .... the AIR2 was hooked up to a vest that I seldom use these days. He didn't think hightly of AIR2's either.

If I had your attitude I would probably be dead or seriously injured.. I do alot of deep diving and have had hundreds of dives on my CCR without incident, on one particular dive, do ing a free descent my Diluent first stage blew a high pressure seat, at this point I was approximately 250-260fsw (and sinking)
. I was able to plumb in an alternate gas source and turn the dive safely.. If I had your attitude there would have been no need to carry an alternate since I had hundreds of dives without the slightest problem.. I would probably still be dropping down the wall....

There is no excuse anyone can come up with to not have an alternate second stage whether it be on the same 1st stage or an independent first stage.. Just because you haven't needed it yet doesn't mean you wount need it in the future.. The greatest chance of failure is probably the first dive after you service your gear!

I wouldn't count on buddy breathing.. Unless you practice it with your buddy on a regular basis its a useless skill.. Over the years there have been multiple deaths due to buddy breathing.. Int easy enough when there isn;t an emergency, but put life on the line the stress level jumps..

Even an AIR 2 is better than nothing, If your wife had an issue, you would switch to your Air 2 and give your primary to you wife/buddy (this is also why it is important if you use an air 2 (or similiar) your primary should be on a longer hose)

 

[Keysdrifter454]

This past June I made 14 dives with Don Foster's Shop in Grand Cayman. I was using my Scubapro Mk10 and didn't have an octo attached. The divemaster on the boat started to lecture me on not having an octo on my rig. He stated that it would soon become a law in Grand Cayman that all divers would have to have a octopus if the wanted to dive in Cayman waters. I told him I never heard of that and I and my wife were both experience divers with over 500 logged dives without any serious problems. We have our equipment maintained yearly and have never had a major equipment malfuction while on a dive. He went on to say PADI no longer requires teaching buddy breathing because it was too difficulate and again stressed that was one of the reasons I needed an octo. I explained I did own an AIR2 but prefered not to dive with it using this jacket .... the AIR2 was hooked up to a vest that I seldom use these days. He didn't think hightly of AIR2's either.

No disrespect meant, but, frankly, it's your attitude that's the problem.

You shouldn't be having any conversations about why you need a secondary reg.

Must not care much for your wife.

Your AIR2 -is- a peice of crap, but a moot point if you don't even have it with you.

If you're diving in the Caymans, I assume a secondary isn't going to let the smoke out of your wallet (I'll send you one if you can't afford it), so you simply choose to dive without one, apparently to be special.

It's your attitude that's the problem.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

If I had your attitude I would probably be dead or seriously injured.. <snip>

There is no excuse anyone can come up with to not have an alternate second stage whether it be on the same 1st stage or an independent first stage.. Just because you haven't needed it yet doesn't mean you wount need it in the future.. The greatest chance of failure is probably the first dive after you service your gear!

I wouldn't count on buddy breathing.. Unless you practice it with your buddy on a regular basis its a useless skill.. Over the years there have been multiple deaths due to buddy breathing..

Should have read the thread first.

Another point, however, is the dude's assumption that it will be his buddy that he's buddy breathing with, and not some unfamiliar and inexperienced passer-by that will take his reg on the run.

His only reg.

 

[opiniongirl]

I guess you can understand that most people feel (pretty passionately..) that an Octopus is now as standard as a pressure gauge. At least dive gear is fun to shop for!

Hopefully the boat was able to fit you up with what was required, and that you had a great time on your trip.

 

[shaneevans1]

I have a question. I am a new diver, and was trained by a very well respected and tenured local dive shop owned by a 30+ year diver. The staff are all experienced divers and seem up to date on the latest and best gear. I did my research, and then went in and asked the staff what they recommended. I am a big guy, (lifter, not fat), and may ultimately, after appropriate training, do some diving for my dept. (Im a deputy, and on the swat team). That in mind, they sold me a Atomic B2, and a AquaLung Airsource attached to my ProQD+ Bc as a back up.. I was reading this thread and noticed that you thought the Air2 was um.. substandard.. my AirSource certainly doesnt breathe as well as my B2, but it seems to be a good reg.. do you think the BCD Backups are crap, or just the Air2? I really liked the elimination of the extra hose, and the ease of finding it. I just wanted to ask.. Thanks..
Shane in B.R.
PS, you guys are pretty rough around here, huh? lol.

No disrespect meant, but, frankly, it's your attitude that's the problem.

You shouldn't be having any conversations about why you need a secondary reg.

Must not care much for your wife.

Your AIR2 -is- a peice of crap, but a moot point if you don't even have it with you.

If you're diving in the Caymans, I assume a secondary isn't going to let the smoke out of your wallet (I'll send you one if you can't afford it), so you simply choose to dive without one, apparently to be special.

It's your attitude that's the problem.

 

[Boogie711]

Shane - there are a lot of threads on here about why in line inflator hose regulators are definitely sub-standard.

Amongst other things, it makes controlling your bouyancy during an emergency ascent far more difficult, and my big beef - if you have a free-flowing BC inflator hose, the only recourse you have is to disconnect your hose - thus disconnecting your secondary air source as well.

The other side of the coin worth considering is - what is superior to an in-line octo compared to a backup reg bungeed around your neck? Especially since, in many cases, the full second stage is often cheaper than an in-line inflator reg.

 

[ChickenBone]

Shane - there are a lot of threads on here about why in line inflator hose regulators are definitely sub-standard.

Amongst other things, it makes controlling your bouyancy during an emergency ascent far more difficult, and my big beef - if you have a free-flowing BC inflator hose, the only recourse you have is to disconnect your hose - thus disconnecting your secondary air source as well.

The other side of the coin worth considering is - what is superior to an in-line octo compared to a backup reg bungeed around your neck? Especially since, in many cases, the full second stage is often cheaper than an in-line inflator reg.

my $0.02 - after lots of research both here at SB and elsewhere, i decided on a bungeed diverite octo instead of the atomic SS1. i personally can't see any benefit to the inflator hose regs and as boogie mentioned, my octo (which breathes great, btw) was less than half the price of the atomic SS1. i paid a whopping $70 for the reg and the hose.

as for the original poster, I simply can't understand the logic of not diving with a aas. what's the point? to each his own, i guess.

 

[Michael Schlink]

Scubapro50 you just got a good taste of the strongly opinionated here on SB. As far as the question of Cayman's rules or laws regarding an "Octo" I think it's quite obvious that regardless of what the Caymans require it is generally considered a bit inconsiderate and possibly rude not to have some sort of AA(safety issues aside).
You have obviously been diving a long time however your actual experience is rather limited IE 30+ years diving and 500 dives. There are quite a few of us with fewer years but much more diving experience, also many of us sample a greater variety of environments. I mention this partly out of your defence as my older brother is much like you in his diving career. I will go out on a limb here and guess that it's been a while since you have had any formal training from an instructor and becasue you have been diving as long as you have you are very comfortable with your gear and config.

Scuba gear has changed some over the years but probably the greatest changes have been in techniques and the philosophy behind them. A great deal of change has occured in the last 5-10 years. The reason "Buddy Breathing" became OPTIONAL with PADI (and I'll asuume some other training agencies) was less that it was difficult to teach but rather it had a very low success rate in the field, so to speak. Double drownings were occuring literally every year and since, as has been pointed out, the many different and rather inexpensive AAS that are available it makes more sense to have 2 air sources than 1.
It has become even more important to you ,that you now carry some sort of AAS because very few if any of the divers in the water with you have been trained to single hose air share, and of those that have been trained I'll bet few are proficient. Simply put -if while you are diving in the Caymans (or anywhere else) and a diver nearby needs air and they head your way and you don't have an AAS, one or both of you are going to have a very exciting few moments.
If you'll take my advice, search SB and your LDS and make a educated decesion about what type of AAS is best for you and do the same for your wife's gear (or let her do it, I don't want to sound like a MCP) THEN be sure to get some practice in with your new toy. You'll be glad you did-M

 

[shaneevans1]

Thanks Boogie, and ChickenBone for your replys.. All that said, is there any disadvantage to just adding the octo and keeping the airsource? I realize that it will be jumping over the very reason I paid 120$ for the airsource in the first place, but I am now seeing your point of view here with the having to disconnect the bc hose issue. I have trained with both methods, as my o/w pool time was spent with an instructor owned reg setup with an octo, rather than an AirSource. I intend to, before I complete my o/w checkouts, purchase a spare air kit and attach it to my gear. I figure if my b/c inflator valve sticks AND my B2 fails, ive angered somebody enough that I better have another place to get air besides the usual places.
I will go and look at some more options. My instructor has both devices on his gear, and as Ive watched him, he seems to use both about 50% of the the time when training on alternate air sources.
Thanks again guys, glad to be a part of this forum.

Shane - there are a lot of threads on here about why in line inflator hose regulators are definitely sub-standard.

Amongst other things, it makes controlling your bouyancy during an emergency ascent far more difficult, and my big beef - if you have a free-flowing BC inflator hose, the only recourse you have is to disconnect your hose - thus disconnecting your secondary air source as well.

The other side of the coin worth considering is - what is superior to an in-line octo compared to a backup reg bungeed around your neck? Especially since, in many cases, the full second stage is often cheaper than an in-line inflator reg.

 

[archman]

.. All that said, is there any disadvantage to just adding the octo and keeping the airsource?

I had to do that once at a NAUI facility. I had to teach students octo breathing, and it was confusing to them when I donated my primary and used my AIR 2 myself. So I hooked up a little Minimus octo for their benefit. I still use it whenever I have to teach OW students. For non-teaching dives I simply pop the octo off and stick it in my gear bag.

If you go the tech diving configuration route, you're gonna want to get rid of that inflator reg. I assume you're just keeping it on until you get a standard BC inflator retrofitted?