New DPV - Dive Xtras

[marc.collin]

there are not battery who come with the scooter for 1500$

 

[DA Aquamaster]

there are not battery who come with the scooter for 1500$

That's very true. $1500 is for the BlackTip DPV only.

However that lets the customer configure the batteries based on their preferences and needs.

At the low end the total for the DPV, batteries and charger will be about $1,605.

Even if you go the most expensive route the total cost of DPV, batteries and charger is still just under $2,000.

5 Ah:

1.1) At the low end you can get a pair of generic 5 Ah DeWalt compatible batteries for around $50-$55 on Amazon. You can also get a Pallwing clone of the DeWalt DCB-102 two bay charger for $52 on Amazon. That brings the total up to around $1,605 for a scooter that delivers the same performance as the Dive Xtras Sierra with the NiMh battery, 50 minutes of run time at 150 fpm.

1.2) You can go the all DeWalt route with 5 Ah DeWalt branded batteries available for $62 each on Amazon and a DeWalt DCB-102 charger for $199. That brings the price up to $1,723. That's still over $100 less then the much slower NiMh Aquaprop ($1,875) and almost $900 less than the lithium battery Aquaprop L ($2,600).

6 Ah:

2.1) A pair of generic 6 Ah batteries will only cost you about $5 more, and should provide about 60 minutes of run time at 150 fpm. Total cost = $1,610.

2.2) 6 Ah Dewalts are $170 per pair, so $1,769 for the DPV, pair of 6Ah batteries and DCB-102 charger.

9 Ah:

3.1) You can get generic 9 Ah batteries for $70 each on Amazon. With 9Ah batteries you'll have about 93 minutes of run time at 150 fpm. Paired with the clone of the DCB-102 charger the total DPV/battery/charger cost is now $1,692. Still less than either Subgravity Aquaprop option.

3.2) The 9 Ah DeWalt batteries are selling for $246 per pair on Amazon and with the DeWalt DCB-102 charger the total cost is still only $1,845. again less than the either Aquaprop.

12 Ah:

4.1a) The 12 Ah DeWalt batteries are running $199 each on Amazon, and paired with the DCB-102 charger the total for DPV, batteries and charger is $1,997. The 12 Ah batteries will give you just over 120 minutes of run time at 150 fpm, that's about three times faster than the average diver's swim speed, or in other words about the same range as a diver swimming steadily for 6 hours non stop.

4.1b) You can save $47 with the Pallwing charger, bringing it down to $1,950.

------

In my experience, the advantage with the more expensive DeWalt batteries doesn't really show itself until you've ran the batteries a year or two. I've found the DeWalt batteries will retain more of their original capacity than the generics a couple years down the road, around 90% compared to 70% to 80%. Which one makes more sense depends on how often you use the scooter and what you need from it in terms of run time. I tend to run generic batteries in my P1 and P2 demo scooters and reserve the DeWalt batteries for cave use.

I'll probably do the same with my BlackTip when it arrives, using 12 Ah DeWalts for use as a back up cave DPV, and 9 Ah generics for demo use. It makes more sense to have 3 sets of 9 Ah generic batteries (for $420) on a demo day than a single set ($398) of 12 Ah batteries. It's 280 minutes/4.7 hours of run time (plus plenty of time to fully recharge at least one set, so just over 370 minutes/6.2 hours of run time), compared to 123 minutes/2 hours of run time for similar money.

The other advantage of the Power tool battery approach is that when you do replace the batteries in a few years, the total cost is much less. For example the NiMh battery in the Aquaprop currently costs $800 to replace. The lithium battery in the Aquaprop L costs $1,100. That's more than twice the cost of the DeWalt 12 Ah batteries ($398), more than 7 times the cost of the 9Ah generic batteries ($140), and over 20 times the cost of a pair of generic 5 Ah batteries ($50).

 

[marc.collin]

how many battery can we put?

 

[victorzamora]

how many battery can we put?

Two.

Two of the "20V" (actually ~18V) add up to the 36V the motors use/like/want.

Total battery capacity is 2x18V times the capacity of the pack you choose (rated and actual might be very different). So that would be 2x18Vx5Ah=180Wh or 2x18Vx12Ah=432Wh, as examples.

 

[JohnnyC]

I'd take one as a backup scooter. Decent enough range with the 12Ah batteries should do an alright job of getting you out of most caves if your primary scoot scoot takes a digger.

 

[Mo2vation]

That's very true. $1500 is for the BlackTip DPV only.

However that lets the customer configure the batteries based on their preferences and needs.

At the low end the total for the DPV, batteries and charger will be about $1,605.

Even if you go the most expensive route the total cost of DPV, batteries and charger is still just under $2,000.

5 Ah:

1.1) At the low end you can get a pair of generic 5 Ah DeWalt compatible batteries for around $50-$55 on Amazon. You can also get a Pallwing clone of the DeWalt DCB-102 two bay charger for $52 on Amazon. That brings the total up to around $1,605 for a scooter that delivers the same performance as the Dive Xtras Sierra with the NiMh battery, 50 minutes of run time at 150 fpm.

1.2) You can go the all DeWalt route with 5 Ah DeWalt branded batteries available for $62 each on Amazon and a DeWalt DCB-102 charger for $199. That brings the price up to $1,723. That's still over $100 less then the much slower NiMh Aquaprop ($1,875) and almost $900 less than the lithium battery Aquaprop L ($2,600).

6 Ah:

2.1) A pair of generic 6 Ah batteries will only cost you about $5 more, and should provide about 60 minutes of run time at 150 fpm. Total cost = $1,610.

2.2) 6 Ah Dewalts are $170 per pair, so $1,769 for the DPV, pair of 6Ah batteries and DCB-102 charger.

9 Ah:

3.1) You can get generic 9 Ah batteries for $70 each on Amazon. With 9Ah batteries you'll have about 93 minutes of run time at 150 fpm. Paired with the clone of the DCB-102 charger the total DPV/battery/charger cost is now $1,692. Still less than either Subgravity Aquaprop option.

3.2) The 9 Ah DeWalt batteries are selling for $246 per pair on Amazon and with the DeWalt DCB-102 charger the total cost is still only $1,845. again less than the either Aquaprop.

12 Ah:

4.1a) The 12 Ah DeWalt batteries are running $199 each on Amazon, and paired with the DCB-102 charger the total for DPV, batteries and charger is $1,997. The 12 Ah batteries will give you just over 120 minutes of run time at 150 fpm, that's about three times faster than the average diver's swim speed, or in other words about the same range as a diver swimming steadily for 6 hours non stop.

4.1b) You can save $47 with the Pallwing charger, bringing it down to $1,950.

------

In my experience, the advantage with the more expensive DeWalt batteries doesn't really show itself until you've ran the batteries a year or two. I've found the DeWalt batteries will retain more of their original capacity than the generics a couple years down the road, around 90% compared to 70% to 80%. Which one makes more sense depends on how often you use the scooter and what you need from it in terms of run time. I tend to run generic batteries in my P1 and P2 demo scooters and reserve the DeWalt batteries for cave use.

I'll probably do the same with my BlackTip when it arrives, using 12 Ah DeWalts for use as a back up cave DPV, and 9 Ah generics for demo use. It makes more sense to have 3 sets of 9 Ah generic batteries (for $420) on a demo day than a single set ($398) of 12 Ah batteries. It's 280 minutes/4.7 hours of run time (plus plenty of time to fully recharge at least one set, so just over 370 minutes/6.2 hours of run time), compared to 123 minutes/2 hours of run time for similar money.

The other advantage of the Power tool battery approach is that when you do replace the batteries in a few years, the total cost is much less. For example the NiMh battery in the Aquaprop currently costs $800 to replace. The lithium battery in the Aquaprop L costs $1,100. That's more than twice the cost of the DeWalt 12 Ah batteries ($398), more than 7 times the cost of the 9Ah generic batteries ($140), and over 20 times the cost of a pair of generic 5 Ah batteries ($50)

.

This is like beer maths.... only with power and, you know, real dollars.

Fab post. Truly. Thanks!

- K

 

[marc.collin]

what battery brand is supported?

bosh
Milwaukee
dewalt
black and decker
Makita
Hitachi
Hilti
...
?

 

[johndiver999]

I assume that each different size battery has a different weight. How much does this affect the scooter buoyancy? I assume the larger batteries make the scooter heavier, or do you add internal ballast when using smaller batteries?

 

[_Ralph]

Yup, lighter weight batteries require some extra ballast to weight the scooter properly. With the 9/12aH batteries, the blacktip is ‘neutral’ ... a little tail heavy is fresh water, a little light in salt water.

I assume that each different size battery has a different weight. How much does this affect the scooter buoyancy? I assume the larger batteries make the scooter heavier, or do you add internal ballast when using smaller batteries?

Dewalt styled 20v batteries only, due to the proprietary connection

_R

what battery brand is supported?

bosh
Milwaukee
dewalt
black and decker
Makita
Hitachi
Hilti
...
?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

what battery brand is supported?

bosh
Milwaukee
dewalt
black and decker
Makita
Hitachi
Hilti
...
?

The Piranha and BlackTip both use DeWalt compatible 18/20 volt batteries, not just the DeWalt batteries but also the DeWalt compatible generics by Enegitech, Waitley, etc.

The DeWalt branded batteries arguably retain more capacity 1 to 2 years out, but they also cost twice as much, so it really depends on your needs and preferences.