New DGX regulator

[stuartv]

@DiveGearExpress It is so awesome to see you here fielding these questions! And that you are rolling out your own line of top shelf regulators. I think it is great that you are offering this with a 22" hose. I am constantly annoyed by the pile of useless hoses I have laying around because every other new regulator comes with a hose that is a length I have no use for. Such a waste! And that much more expense for me when I do buy a new regulator.

I have a couple more questions for you:

Will there be any way to seal this 1st stage?

You will sell service kits and parts (which is awesome!). Will you offer training classes? Service manuals? How will techs and DIYers learn how to properly service these regs?

I am a certified reg tech, with training on several models of piston and diaphragm regs. Would I find that I needed no additional training to be able to work on your XTRA regs?

Does your 2nd stage have the feature where you can press in the center of the cover and twist it, to lock it in place, so that the seat inside has no pressure on it when the reg is stored?

Your website has a video showing how the Automatic Closure works on the 1st stage, but there is no mention at all of that feature in the description. Is that something that a technician could remove, if the customer desired?

Thank you.

[EDITED - less questions. Hopefully, easier for @DiveGearExpress to digest and respond]

 

[cerich]

Great....except my comment comparing price to Deep Six was not based on the Deep Six DGX value entry model it was based on Deep Six's current pricing on their website for their Signature Series 1st and 2nd stages.

I guess my pricing expectation is that i would expect piston 1st stage to cost less than similar quality diaphragm 1st stage based on the fact that a piston 1st stage is generally speaking a less technical design and typically has less parts inside. This typically translates into lower manufacturing costs. So it is surprising that the cost is so high.

I do like the notion of "right to repair" but other than that, I am just wondering if DGX can explain the advantages these regulators will have over their competitors products.

-Z

Actually a balanced piston normally is more expensive to produce.

Regardless, I do know that DGX has been working on this a while now, and expect they have a great reg.

Generally speaking, if diving really cold conditions a diaphragm will be more resistant to freezing, however some bal pistons are pretty good and some bal diaphragms are not so good. so YMMV and the DGX I have no idea what they have done for use in cold, nor have I tested one or even had one in my hands.

I do expect that it flows more than most bal diaphragms, that said balanced pistons tend to have a higher IP drop will will affect the WOB and often offsets the higher flow for recreational diving. Tech, gas mix starts playing a role and frankly below 500-600 ft or so a balanced piston starts to really run away from a balanced diaphragm.. not that that is exactly something that matters to more than a small handful of people. Those depths are also often cold, which throws the wrench back. That type of diving is a series of compromises anyhow with a exceptionally thin margin.

Some folks feel that a bal diaphragm is easier to service, I have been told that a ton by many experienced techs. I never felt that but my perception is I am in the minority there.

Materials choice is massive on any reg, and more so on a balanced piston. between the ambient chamber tending to hold some water after use and the big piston being some type of stainless corrosion can be an issue. The choice of SS for the piston also will impact how it seals with the HP seat, knife edge or not. All of that plays to durability and reliability. In the old days HP seat material choices made bal pistons generally more reliable, now days the material used in diaphragms seats are as durable and reliable depending on the seat design itself. Some of the HP seat designs for bal diaphragms that perform really well in testing are a serious PITA service wise and reliability wise and I have avoided them because of that. Bal pistons that aren't knife edge are notoriously difficult engineering to get a non drifting reliable set, it seems like it should be easy, I can point out a whole bunch of bal piston regs that didn't quite work out they way expected in real life when they went to non knife edge. Generally the SS used in a knife edge is more likely to corrode (but gives a more reliable and easy to achieve set). Knife edge is a wee bit more likely to produce harmonics, but then again the bal piston design in general is anyhow.

Choice is good

 

[W W Meixner]

Thanks for the interest in the DGX XTRA regulator. To address a couple of issues raised in the discussion...

We are in the process of launching this regulator, which we have been working on for over a year. It is indeed built to our specifications by WMD. It's definitely not an 'off-the-shelf' design and it's definitely not rushed, but not all the configurations and related materials are up on the website yet.

The initial base package on the website is just for a 1st and 2nd, with a 22-inch flex hose. As noted in a previous post, it's unusual for DGX to not offer hose length and material configuration in the base package. There are several unique things going on that explain this configuration. We are having WMD individually bench test each and every regulator on an ANSTI machine and we include the serialized printed performance report in the package shipped to the customer. Because the report is for a specific 1st stage, specific hose, and specific 2nd stage we don't include configuration options on the base regulator package web page.

We decided to configure the base package with the 22-inch hose because our history suggests we almost never sell a regulator package with the typical 27-inch to 30-inch hose widely seen in recreational regulator configurations. In fact the most common LP regulator hose length we sell is 22-inch because it's found on our Streamlined, Long Hose, Doubles and Sidemount packages, so we decided that's we way would stock the base package. If you want the base package with some other hose length, just put your request in the Special Instructions dialog box at checkout but understand that technically a different hose invalidates the serialized performance report.

As mentioned previously, we are just now introducing this regulator and we don't have all our packages built up and on the website. Lisa is taking photos for the packages now and you'll see the Streamlined, Long Hose, Doubles and Sidemount configuration packages appear on the website shortly. The pricing of the configuration packages will of course represent a better value than the base package.

As for the price, yes this regulator is a higher price than our Deep Six DGX value entry model. It's not the same regulator and definitely not a re-badged "off-the-shelf" model of the ScubaPro although it is a piston design. Is it better? We publish a sample of the ANSTI performance test results on our website and include a copy of the test on the specific regulator you are purchasing so you can make that decision for yourself. Because we believe consumers have the 'right to repair', we'll also shortly have all service kits and repair parts available for order on the website as well. Is the DGX XTRA a terrific value? We invite you to judge for yourself by considering not just the price but also the quality, performance, and support that Dive Gear Express offers.

Mark...

I've been a DGX customer for a long time...and have always supported DGX products on SB...as well as on charters...and every other opportunity I have...

Regarding the new DGX Extra...I'm curious to know why you decided on an ''open spring chamber'' first stage...

There are a lot of ''cold water folks'' here...and why not an environmentally sealed/coldwater protected diaphragm first stage...like the DGX Deep Six...or is the ''Extra'' only phase 1 of further variants to come in the ''Extra'' line...

I also have to ask...is the DGX ''Deep Six'' variant going to be dropped...once the ''Extra'' is fully up and running...

Right now...regardless of the price difference between the Extra and the DGX Deep Six...I would personally stick with the DGX Deep Six because of the design of the first stage...it's not a new design...but it's tried/tested by time...rock solid...and dead easy to service/tune...I certainly like mine...cold Georgian Bay water...flawless performance...primary and bailout 1st stages on both of my rebreathers...

Best...thank you...

Warren Meixner...

 

[stuartv]

frankly below 500-600 ft or so a balanced piston starts to really run away from a balanced diaphragm..

Nowadays, anybody diving that deep on OC is nuts anyway, in my book. 500+ means CCR with Bail Out CCR (to me - not that I have been anywhere near that deep).

 

[DiveGearExpress]

i would expect piston 1st stage to cost less than similar quality diaphragm 1st stage based on the fact that a piston 1st stage is generally speaking a less technical design and typically has less parts inside. This typically translates into lower manufacturing costs. So it is surprising that the cost is so high. I do like the notion of "right to repair" but other than that, I am just wondering if DGX can explain the advantages these regulators will have over their competitors products.

I would not agree with your expectation regarding costs of piston vs diaphragm. In modern manufacturing, the piston seems no "less technical" and a difference in first stage parts count isn't meaningful to our costs. Also, a LOT of effort goes in to modern second stage designs so it's not just about piston vs diaphragm. Dive Gear Express has a long established reputation for favorable pricing and we think the XTRA represents a terrific value for a top shelf product.

The Deep Six Signature, as well as the ScubaPro MK25/G260 and DGX XTRA are excellent products and as previously discussed there are also differences with the DGX XTRA that might be meaningful advantages for some but of course not all divers.

 

[DiveGearExpress]

There are a lot of ''cold water folks'' here... Also, is the DGX ''Deep Six'' variant going to be dropped...once the ''Extra'' is fully up and running...

For genuinely cold water diving, our recommendation continues to be the Poseidon line as we think nobody does cold water better.

There are absolutely no plans to "drop" the Deep Six DGX regulator design from the line, it's a value priced time tested design. As you point out later in your post it meets the needs of many if not most divers. But a request heard over the years from our customers is a top shelf DGX brand regulator with value pricing, that is now represented by the XTRA. So now our customers have a choice of two different DGX models as well as the other brands we sell.

 

[W W Meixner]

There are absolutely no plans to "drop" the Deep Six DGX regulator design from the line, it's a value priced time tested design that more than meets the needs of many divers. As you point out later in your post it meets the needs of many if not most divers. But a request heard over the years from our customers is a top shelf regulator from DGX with value pricing, that is now represented by the XTRA. So now our customers have a choice of two different DGX models.

Mark...

Thank you for the response...certainly makes me happy!!!

Best...

Warren

 

[buddhasummer]

@DiveGearExpress

Hi Mark,

Does the second stage have a micro adjuster screw or is it a single point of tuning i.e the orifice ? Something like this I mean. Thank you.

Or more like this:

 

[Welcome To Hell]

Is there a way to get the XTRA second stage IP matched to Deep SIX First Stage as a package from DGX?

I am in the market for a doubles / pony setup, was about to buy the DGX/Deep six package, but I would be willing to pay a slight premium for the W.M.D second stage design, materials and coatings.

Do not care so much about the first stage, as Deep Six is more than enough for the diving i do and within my budget.

 

[stuartv]

Is there a way to get the XTRA second stage IP matched to Deep SIX First Stage as a package from DGX?

I am in the market for a doubles / pony setup, was about to buy the DGX/Deep six package, but I would be willing to pay a slight premium for the W.M.D second stage design, materials and coatings.

Do not care so much about the first stage, as Deep Six is more than enough for the diving i do and within my budget.

The DGX/Deep6 package is $600. The XTRA package will probably be $1000.

For what you want, why not just go direct to Deep6 and get their Signature Series doubles package? It would be under $900.