Negative entry vs Using a downline

[danvolker]

Got it. So in the kinder, gentler SB, no one is allowed to call you on it when you say something that is totally ridiculous. Is that how you see it?

That would be nice.... I would like that

Thanks John!!!

 

[Centrals]

: Setting it straight

The last five words: "Shut up and go diving"
Absolutely.

 

[T.C.]

TC, I know about cutters like that. I was a 68w. Who takes a rescue hook to their harness and expects it to be divable? Turn down the derp a little. Just a tad.

It wasn't a rescue hook. It was a titanium bladed cutter only a little larger than my trilobyte. Two pulls across the shoulders of the old-style IBA, two down the side. Instant access, without moving the casualty further (he also suspected a neck injury)

Why don't you turn down the cultish behavior a little. Just a tad.

And the stroke thing is your definition. No one else agrees with you.

You mean other than DIR?

Oh, TC, the "asinine" thing for where we store gear is because we believe in this thing called a 'team'. Its standardized so everyone knows what everyones got and where to find it. Not rocket surgery.

That is so far beyond stupid I fail to find words to describe it.

Do you all switch BP/Ws underwater, like a Chinese fire drill? Is that why you all need gear in the same place?
What possible reason could exist that you would need to dig into my gear? Don't you have your own? Can't you wait 5 seconds while I hand X to you?

I use the example of my vest in combat. No one else fights in my rig; not the CSM, not the LT. I do. I need it set up where I can get stuff best. The only thing is where items that will be used on me (like my morphine autoinjector) are. Despite being in a more important team than your diving, my gear needs to be optimized for me; not you.

My rig diving is my rig. There is no gear on it that would be used on my like an autoinjector. Why does the placement of my light can, knife, computers, etc. need to be "standarized"? I need it set up where I can get stuff best. Not you.

Check out the U of M Diving program. Halcyon wings in UM colors, green and orange. Pretty cool. I have a wing with orange panels. My buddy's wife dives a pink Halcyon wing. Been in the water with blue Halcyon wings and Saturday my buddy was diving a light gray Halcyon wing. Keep going?

But...Is it DIR? Do they use it?

Just because it's Halcyon doesn't make it DIR, according to the true disciples here. Hell, I have Halcyon accessories. I'm not DIR. On a side note, I find their gear to be poor quality. I know others who've switched away from it for these same reasons. I wonder why this brand was chosen to exemplify DIR.

Marketing in the same way that anything hunting or shooting can now be found for $10-$100 more with the label of "tactical" slapped on it?

He is alive and well...He took over his Dad's business pipewelders. He has a lot of employees that worship the ground he walks on, despite what TC has to say. Roles and Reasons and Strategies and Threats. The whole thing may just be too complicated for discussion here.

Somehow, I doubt this. One mistake by these craftsmen would probably bring down a full range of cursing and insulting on the employee. The zebra doesn't change his stripes when he leaves the savannah.

How about we knock off the George attacks....I am getting sick of this ****.

You mean you're finding it harder and harder to justify his explicit and revolting behavior? The same behavior that is directly responsible for the arrogance and holier than thou attitude of DIR divers today?

The BBS Turns has quotes that are so far out of context, there is no way for them to make sense if you did not read them when they were originally in the discussions...in the full posts....

How is cursing at people, calling them names, using racial slurs "out of context"? dan, there is NO possible context that excuses his disgusting behavior. And then you're going to tell me that he was different to OW divers?

Seriously... Yes, George could say things that were hard to deal with for JJ and the others sometimes, but nothing like the way the out of context lines here are.....

Oh, he was worse in person? That I can believe.

If it came down to it...it would be possible to reconstruct each line from this, and to show how and why....It would be far more time consuming that I would want to attempt. Pick a couple of lines, and maybe that would be a fair way to run with this.

Justify the hateful vitorol that he spewed upon the tragic death of another diver. You know, the pathetic behavior that saw him stripped of his instructor credentials?

 

[rivers]

TC, what I was told from various GUE instructors and divers, was that back-up gear (mask, dsmb, timer, etc) is in the right pocket because the stage cylinders (when worn) are on the left. If you lose your mask, you don't want to have to faff around the stage to get to your back-up mask. You want to be able to access it easily and quickly. I hope that helps.

 

[PfcAJ]

It makes it real easy to spot something missing. Right arm is bare? Yup missing your bottom timer. And there have been a plenty of times when I've been able to reach over and help a buddy stow something real quick either in the water or on a boat. Also all the emergency procedures are the same
no matter who I'm diving with.

And rly the dir must be black thing is baloney. The last class I took was fairly colorful. Red suit, blue suit, green suit, pink regulators, blue regulators, blue and sparkly like a bass boat, colored wings, white stages, etc. the color thing is not for reals, you've been bamboozled. But it's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they've been fooled, I guess.

 

[jadairiii]

….How is cursing at people, calling them names, using racial slurs "out of context"? dan, there is NO possible context that excuses his disgusting behavior. And then you're going to tell me that he was different to OW divers? .....

Since you never met him and seem not only to have a huge bias against all DIR and cant get over someone that has not posted on the internet in somewhere near 10 years let me relay a personal experience I had with George on 2 occasions.
First was sometime around 1996 on a tech dive, we were both on the same boat, I was a poster child for non-dir, had a nice dive and not once did he really say anything positive or negative to me, as you would expect from two strangers on a dive trip.

Second time about a year later, on a recreational lobster dive on another commercial dive boat, we were suiting up next to each other (again, with my non-DIR rig), he glanced over at my rig, asked if he could give me some advice and explained to me why some of my rigging was not optimal, explained the reasons why and the pros/cons of the set up. That was it, did not call me a stroke, had no idea who I was, just gave me some tips and went diving. And yes, he actually asked permission.

…… You know, the pathetic behavior that saw him stripped of his instructor credentials?

If you had been around back then (on tec diver and cavers) you would have gotten the “joke” about that. TDI sent him an instructor card, George was never an instructor, never did an ITC and he used to laugh about that all the time.

Go diving, have fun and I think it is time you left the 90’s behind.

 

[danvolker]

I was just looking at all the bitterness and vitriol coming out of so many posters in this thread.....and the thing is, diving is a frick-in easy sport.....not even a sport really, just an "activity". Diving is so EASY to do and enjoy, that ALMOST ANYONE can do it.
We might as well be arguing about whether or not TC can walk a straight line better than PfcAJ.....

Any of us in this thread could grab an old steel 72 and a j valve, a harness/no bc, and enjoy 99.9% of the dives that get enjoyed by SB members just as well as they do. Would I be better off with my DIR rig on a 280 foot dive? Sure. Who cares? I really don't.
I'd be fine going back to the 1970 gear right now, and I'd be just as safe, and have just as much fun as the vast majority of divers ( that ARE are pretty da*n safe on every dive).

Of course, if I were to do this, I would have to use my freedive fins.....an epiphany can only go so far

 

[LiteHedded]

wow the assholes are out in full force in this thread.
i better get rid of my colorful gear. red, blue, clear, pink, yellow
anyone wanna buy this stroke **** cheap?

 

[jadairiii]

....
I'd be fine going back to the 1970 gear right now, and I'd be just as safe, and have just as much fun as the vast majority of divers ( that ARE are pretty da*n safe on every dive)...

Well almost, I don't think I would use my Water Gill At-Pac airway with the LP hose routed inside the oral inflator tube today! How they loved to "auto-inflate" when they cracked. (although I still have it)

 

[boulderjohn]

One of the reasons that this thread is just a shouting match is the amount of misinformation and exaggeration that is going on from both sides. Several people, including me, have called out Dan for his attempts to elevate GI3 to sainthoood and declare that he never did anything remotely wrong in his life. Having done that, I would like to turn around and switch to the other side.

No, it's because that is what has been dicated to use. Some of it fails the common sense test; for example, a continous loop harness. Single point of failure, have a cut in the harness, and the whole thing is useless. A strap system would be better....I could slice it with a line cutter in .5 seconds. I've seen a medic pull linecutters through kevlar about that fast. Yes, I understand how a continous harness works. Your gear isn't complicated.

I am not sure you really do know how the continuous harness system works. As PfcAJ pointed out, it is darn tough to cut accidentally. After hundreds of dives, my old backplate harness had rubbed about 25% through in a couple of places, but it was not remotely close to failing. Yes, a good line cutter will go through it--that is an important safety feature. If it did, then the entire unit would not fail any more than a conventional strap system would. If you get close to one some day, tug on the harness at any point and see if it slides through the nearest slot. It won't. If you take a good knife and cut through the webbing, the result will be the same as if you cut through a strap system.

Second, why the black on all gear? Wouldn't the ability to be seen in low viz, or on the surface dicate that a high viz color be used? Yet, the inner SEAL in this movement dictates dark colors. ...So, you have pictures of DIR gear that some other color? I have never heard of any DIR diver wearing any other color. Ever hear the jokes we "strokes" crack about "DIR tactical black"? Why do you think this is?

I am not aware of any requirement that all the gear be black. On the other hand, until recently almost all of my gear was black. That was because if you walk into almost any dive shop and look around, you will see almost nothing but black gear. I have a wet suit with some yellow on it now, because that is the color it came with. My wings have some red on them now, because that is the color characteristic of the company that made them. Before that the only options I knew of were black. My ultra DIR instructor had two different dry suits with red as the dominant color.

They're no worse than any other fin. The technique used is the key. I see more bottom stirring from paddle fins than splits due to the greater downward thrust.

What is your point here? In any technical training, DIR or otherwise, divers are trained to use kicking techniques that do not create a downward thrust. Paddle fins are used because they work better on certain kinds of kicks used in technical diving than other kinds of fins. I can do all the kicks in any kind of fin, but some of them really, really suck with some of them.

How is using a table from memory considered doing something right?

I agree with this. I said that I have drifted away from DIR in a number of ways, and one of those ways is the reliance on making mathematical calculations and similar decisions under water while potentially under the influence of narcosis. I have two friends who were bent on a decompression dive using these kinds of calculations. They were using a computer in gauge mode as a bottom timer. The computer profile of the dive showed that they had done a very different dive from the one they thought they had done, and they had calculated their ascent (which also turned out to be different from what they thought it was) based on the dive they thought they had done rather than the one they actually had done.

I wonder why this brand [Halcyon] was chosen to exemplify DIR.

Here you are showing a misunderstanding of history. In the earliest days of technical diving, there weren't many options for purchasing this equipment. If you look into the history of the development of DIR, the ownership of GUE, and the ownership of Halcyon, you might find one name appearing in all three places.