Need your help! Falls of Clyde as a Waianae divesite

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Possible idea for fund raising. The ship is a 128 year old historical landmark, 4 masted rigged iron hull , sail driven oil tanker, owned by capt Matson (Matson Navigation Company), and historical playa in Hawaii's maritime culture.

Long story short, it is an important historical ship. Sale pieces of it. It is what the Vandenberg in FL is doing

Be a shipwrecker

Also can someone set up a website, start collecting donations that way:confused:

Governor Linda Lingle email

governor.lingle@hawaii.gov
 
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Keep in mind, if Bishop's doesn't have a real buyer and is willing to sink it offshore, netting them $0, they should be willing to give it to someone to sink near-shore for just about $0. What we should really be raising the money for is the cleaning/prep work necessary to sink it near-shore, environmentally clean, and diver-safe. Then we simply take it off their hands and handle the messy details of getting it to Waianae.

By the way, I would think it would be a much more attractive wreck to sink upright. I'd rather PLAN on sinking it upright (which should be incredibly easy with strategically placed lift bags on the masts) and then chopping the top portion of the masts off to make it CG compliant. When wrecks go down on their sides, it makes things much trickier and just not as majestic on the bottom, especially for a tall ship like this. Look up the recent Texas Clipper problems.

Also, while I have nothing to do with marine inspection, I'm in the Coast Guard and will check with friends downtown to see if they've heard anything. Just FYI, the Coast Guard would probably have little to do with this besides safety of navigation, and safety during the sinking. The state/EPA/DLNR will likely play a much larger role that close to shore.
 
Everyone keeps mentioning the mast and clearance. I would say about 2/3 of the mast has already been removed. I would ASSUME if sunk in 100ft deep water it should have the 40 feet clearance at the surface. I have a picture of the Clyde with the removed mast on this post. I think we need some mast of the ship to give it that sailing historical feel. Just look at the Carthaginian on Maui.

I agree, if Bishop Museum has no buyer and has to sink it deep gaining $0. Then they sold give it up for $0 for near shore sinking.

Of course what harbor is it going to stay at while being diver and environmentally safe? I seriously doubt Bishop Museum will allow it to stay there at pier 7 after Sept 1.

The Sea Tiger cost about $250,000 to clean. While the Clyde is bigger (280 ft), still there is no wiring, pipes, minimum heavy metals / toxic materials, and no engine room. Hopefully that will make it easier and quick to clean. I am willing to volunteer to help prepare the Clyde.
 
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It is not appropriate to try to do fundraising for the sinking of a boat we don't own unless we have the support of the owners. Bishop Museum knows what their options are. And sinking it near-shore is not a zero dollar option. They will incur greater costs to ready it for a near-shore sinking than they would to scuttle it at sea. Not only would they have to pay for the costs to get the boat ready, they are paying everyday, a substantial amount of money for slip fees, insurance costs and are running a substantial risk of the boat sinking right where it is it at, which would be disastrously costly.

It cost Atlantis $350K to sink the Carthaginian. It was costing its owners $50K a year to maintain it and it was roughly only a third of the size of the Falls of Clyde.

If Bishop Museum gives this boat up, as you say, just whom do they give it up to? Do you have someone in mind willing and able to pay a slip fee, the insurance, the fee to haul it of its current slip, etc and takeover full responsibility for it until it can be legally disposed of???? Furthermore, Bishop is not going to turn it over to just anyone lest they be accused of being irresponsible either legally or ethically in their handling of the boat’s disposal. They are a non-profit organization and as such, they hold their reputation in high regard. Whoever they turn it over to would need to have the resources available already to deal with it.

With regards to the clearance of the masts, you are overlooking the fact that this is a sailing ship that has quite a bit of draft below the water's surface, in addition to the part of the hull that sits above water and the masts. Bishop Museum knows the specs of their boat and it currently is not meeting the USCG requirements for a near-shore sinking. The site that is being considered for a near-shore sinking is in 120’ of water. If she sinks upright she will rest only 20’ below the surface at the top of her masts. USCG’s requirement is 40’ below the surface.

I’m certainly no expert on sinking a boat, but I’ve seen a number of videos of some that have been done on the sinking of the Oriskany and some of those in Canada’s artificial reef project. Just exactly how the boat lands on the bottom is something that cannot entirely be controlled. Basically, the only control they have is to cut a bunch of holes above water and set charges in other places where they plan to blow it out to possibly obtain the desired result. Or they pump water in after creating a number of holes. Either way, just how it rests after sinking is still not a sure thing. I’ve never seen them use lift bags and I would think the dangers involved in doing so would create a substantial risk. The more risk I’m sure would likely increase the cost of the sinking.

The boat has already been cleaned by Panko for a deep sea scuttling. Whether or not it will meet State Department of Health requirements for a near-shore sinking remains to be seen. Should it need further cleaning, I really don't know what that would entail and would likely require professionals. We're not talking about mopping and dusting here, folks!

Bishop Museum is currently not willing to start fundraising for the sinking of the boat when they are trying to sell it. Some of that unwillingness may be due in part to the fact that the boat is on the National Register of Historic Places. Because of that, they may have to follow a certain legal path that is unknown to us and perhaps may be a factor in their decision making process. It is an NHL (National Historical Landmark) and as such, they probably have to make a legitimate honest attempt to sell it first before consideration for withdrawal is given.

Trying to raise money without the support of the owners may create an appearance of impropriety that may impede our goals. In addition, without a legitimate recipient of the donations, fundraising ability will be limited. Bishop, being the owner, and already a non-profit organization is the proper recipient and we need their support.

As I have said, sinking the boat near-shore is a considerably more favorable option to Bishop Museum than a deep sea scuttling if it can be done timely and without huge incurrence of additional costs and they know what needs to be done. I think it best that we keep our plans limited to a letter writing campaign for now and those of just how to quickly mobilize a fundraising effort once Bishop Museum’s plan aligns with ours which hopefully it will after September 1st.
 
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UPDATE - Okay update might be generous. I'm not really in a position or at liberty to give an informative, meaningful update. However, I wanted folks to know that there are players in motion behind the scenes and that all the pertinent people are involved and working towards a solution. Everyone agrees that preserving the ship topside is #1, but no one has any feasible plan for that, so most of the parties agree that a near-shore dive site that will preserve the history of the ship and keep it in the public consciousness for years to come is a huge improvement over deep sea sinking and is the best avenue to pursue at this point. That being said, there will still be lots of $$ involved, and it appears likely that fund raising in some form or fashion will still be required, so don't put away your checkbooks just yet. Stand by to stand by, I'll post more when it's appropriate.
 

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