need opinions on equipment.... (SAR)

[rmediver2002]

Vulcanized suits would be my choice for several reasons… They are easier to decontaminate and clean, easy to field repair, extremely durable; permeability tests have been performed on the materials and are readily available as a reference for exposure limits…

Currently we are using the Viking and Gates 1000 gram suits, no significant problems with either brand. The only repairs we have run into are replacement of the Latex seals so far… Pretty resistant to leaking and abrasion…


Viking = established, safe, comfortable, several material weights to chose from (they are currently the only one offering a stretching vulcanized material – offers the comfort and flexibility of normal neoprene suits)
They are also going to be one of the most expensive suits out there…

Hunter (formerly Gates) – offers some great suits at a more affordable cost, they one of the most often used commercial suits, also available in a couple different material weight options

Amron – offers two weights of vulcanized suits also, pretty good prices as well…



I would also recommend talking to Bob3 and seeing what type of group deal you can wrangle…

Good luck,

Jeff

 

[bridgediver]

I've just become involved recently with our small dept team and we are trying to breathe new life into it. We're almost starting from scratch too. We are also on a tight budjet. Here's what we have learned so far.

Firstly. Make sure you have a top notch surface team. Not only are they important to support the divers but almost all "rescue" incidents begin as a surface rescue. Unless the focus is body/object recovery.

You should also take into account the environments you will be diving in. Previous posts have suggested full face masks and rubber suits etc that would be important for ops in contaminated water. If you can get this stuff, go for it! We have found that the cost of this type of equipment can't justify the risk in our area. Unfortunately there are a few places we just won't have the ability to enter - an unfortunate reality of limited funds. You'll have to evalute your risks and also the standards required for rescue diving in your area may also dictate what you need to use.

I would also suggest the backplate set up and any of the other peices you mentioned should serve you well. We have 1 AGA mask and it seems to function well except the comms seem to only work half the time so I'm not sure they're worth it - maybe ours is just a bad one but that is my experience with them. I would agree with the rest that the rubber suits would be best but if your trying to save money we found that neoprene works for us. Less money in the cost of a suit and undergarmets, they are also pretty durable which is important as the suits seem to get beaten up really bad.

We also have used Dive Rescue International in the past and they have an awesome program and I would recommend them for youe training (at least initially). We have since moved away from them because divers must recertify every 2 years and it was the cost thing again. I would suggest to either get the ball rolling with DRI for the first few years and/or go to a consultant and set up your own training program. Alot of work but you'll save thousands of dollars a year.

Good luck!!

 

[Waterborne]

After being gone all weekend and reveiwing this thread, I have to ask what kind of SAR team are we talking about here? Are we talking about a small town department where divers may have to provide their own gear or a large department with a matching budget? I think that some more information about the location, anticipated types of diving, size of the team and budget would be more helpful in providing better answers to your teams needs. I totally agree that the very best gear is desirable for the hazardous environment you are putting yourself into. Although we all know that a very limited budget would not support it. I think that in my initial post, I was going on the premise of a small town dept. that was new in the game.

Baxter, could you give us as much information as possible about the team so we can better formulate our advice?

 

[rmediver2002]

Equipment cost and training cost!! This is no excuse for not having the right gear... I will not even go into the training cost, there is no logic to it...

Just a few thoughts...


Body recovery = biological contamination = FFM and drysuit

Zero visibility = no visual for buddy for assistance = surface tended and communications

Vehicle search / recovery operations = chemical contamination = FFM Drysuit...

DO NOT GET IN OVER YOUR HEAD...

Jeff Lane

 

[trymixdiver]

Ideally you mulitple sets of gear for different situations.

Your not going to use a FFM and drysuit if your not recovering a body or diving in contaninated water. To do it right ( reference not intended, the gear config cannot be dir by definition ie FFM ) you are going to need some serious fundrasiers to get the gear you need.

who is currently doing the recoveries in your area using SCUBA ?


Andy

 

[Waterborne]

Equipment cost and training cost!! This is no excuse for not having the right gear... I will not even go into the training cost, there is no logic to it...

I agree, there is no excuse for not having the right gear and the best training. Now I am not saying hop in and do body recoveries in a wetsuit and standard scuba gear. I was more trying to see if Baxters dept. was in a position to obtain the proper gear and training. IMHO, if this is a dept. with a very limited budget and call volume in this area, then I would say scrap the idea and contract it to a professional service that does have the gear, training and experience to perform these tasks. On the other hand, if this is a dept that has the call volume and budget to support it, then I'm sure the input already given would be invaluable to Baxter. By budget to support it, I mean the proper gear and training as already pointed out by many in this thread, ie drysuits, FFM, comms and the like. Make a little more sense now?

 

[bridgediver]

rmediver2002 once bubbled...
Equipment cost and training cost!! This is no excuse for not having the right gear... I will not even go into the training cost, there is no logic to it...

What I was trying to illustrate is that in the formation of a team there are alot of factors besides just getting equipment. Unless you have virtually unlimited funding you have to take into account the costs of the other aspects of maintaining the team; training being only one.

I agree with trymix. Different equipment can be applied to different situations.

Not sure what you mean by "I will not even go into the training cost, there is no logic to it..."?

 

[rmediver2002]

I am sorry if I come across stern but it sounds less like a recommendation for equipment to a new team and more like trying to convince yourself that purchasing the wrong equipment does not restrict your ability to respond...

If you can not fund the proper equipment and training, pause, re-group, find some way to generate the needed funds and then proceed... If there is a need for the team funding will become available...

What I was trying to illustrate is that in the formation of a team there are alot of factors besides just getting equipment. Unless you have virtually unlimited funding you have to take into account the costs of the other aspects of maintaining the team; training being only one.

I will restate the minimum equipment needed:

1) Dry-suit with dry hood and dry glove attachments (cuff rings..)
2) Positive pressure full-face mask (some type of air block device allowing the diver to switch to an alternate air source without removing the mask)
3) Communications (preferably hardwire as you should be diving line tended anyway)
4) For all your equipment you need to be thinking about entanglement hazards, your not going to be needing to many d-rings or bells on your equipment for slow methodical searching in low visibility water right?


It is far cheaper to buy the right tools the first time, buying recreational scuba equipment would serve little purpose unless you have the money to buy multiple equipment sets. It just does not cover a wide enough variety of projects.

As the teams capabilities increase the next step would be moving to a surface supplied diving system...

Not sure what you mean by "I will not even go into the training cost, there is no logic to it..."?

We also have used Dive Rescue International in the past and they have an awesome program and I would recommend them for youe training (at least initially). We have since moved away from them because divers must recertify every 2 years and it was the cost thing again.

Jeff Lane

 

[baxter_1962]

I would like to thank everyone who has offered help and information. My fire company is a small volunteer dept in the Pocono's. While our budget is tight we are taking this seriously. We have contracted with a company to do our training and are aware that at best our team will not be is service for at least a year. Money for equipment can always be raised one way or another but the training aspect is most important. The best equipment in the world will not help you if you don't know what you're doing. That being said, guess what I was really looking for was advice on equipment that we can purchase now while we are training( considering the budget issue) that we will not have to replace or that we will grow out of as our training proceeds onward. We are planning on drysuits and fullface masks.
But we have to start slow, get as much training done as possible, dive as a team and get comfortable with a new enviroment.

Again thanks for all the replies.

 

[resqdivers]

I am the deputy director of our dive team, a member of a neighboring dive team, professional ff with over 10 yrs in service.

Full face masks with coms are a MUST (NIOSH recommendation, I like the AGA stuff with Positive Pressure and the Surface Breathing Vent) Then you would wat to definately consider a Vulcanized rubber drysuit with hood (for ease of de-con and field repair). Remember that you will most likey be in water that has gas on the surface (from cars, Gas is lighter that water and will float) Neoprene and gas/diesel or any petro product just don't get along. Dive rite products are very capable, as are abyss. Three of my divers along with myself dive a Genesis ReCon and really like it for recovery work. Don't get caught up in the BS of the DIR stuff, doesn't work well with Recovery work, I don't care what they try to get you to believe, it doesn't work well in the conditions that you will be in. If you would like to see our webpage, go to: http://www.pedaler.com/html/rome_twp__special_operations_u.html

Feel free to use our SOG's as a starting point for your dept.

If you have any questions, you can PM me and I will give you my contact info then.

Safe diving