need opinions on equipment.... (SAR)

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This is a little off topic, but is a potential issue with a new team. I dive with several of the divers on a local dive rescue team. On occassion I have had to bring some of them up when they panic or otherwise screw up. They are nice enough guys but really suck as divers. Some have not even gotten the bouyancy issue down pat. On a planned deep dive with a pair of them this wekend, I had an equipment problem and had to skip the dive. The look on the instructors face said it all - he wanted me along as support for these guys. That is pretty sad.

The lakes here are deep, cold, and dark and visibility can be severely limited. A 120 ft deep dive in 40 degre water with zero vis is a challange just to make the dive and even more so if you also need to run an effective search pattern in the limited bottom time available. The annual requirement to stay current on the dive rescue team is 12 dives which is not nearly enough to meet those challenges.

On one recovery a few years ago, the most likely search area was not covered effectively due to depth, low vis and minimally competant divers, who in my opinion, were not entirely honest in addmitting their search areas were not covered. The body was found 18 months later by rec divers specifically looking for the victim. The dive rescue squad insisted on making the recovery (because that's what they take everybody's donations for) and managed to botch it as well.

What really frosts me is that on one rescue where the victim had been down only 14 minutes in very cold water, the fire chief suggested the instructor on the team not go in the water as he was always the first one in the water. His thought was that it would be good to let one of the other divers go first. Stupid. Seonds and minutes count and if the rest of the team is slow that's too bad. To the instructors credit he went anyway.

On another rescue/recovery under the ice, they went through 3 divers before they found one with the skill and experience to actually get to the bottom and rescue the victim.

The principle requirement for membership on the team is that the diver be a member of the local police dept, fire dept or sheriff's dept. and diving skill comes a very distant second with minimal ability required.

Personally, if you are going to start a team, you need to commit to getting them the training to do the job right and they need to be committed to diving enough in all types of conditions to maintain that level of proficiency. This means they need to be in the water developing and maintaining skills virtually every week, year round.

My own biased opinion is that it is far easier to take an experienced and well trained diver and make him a member of the rescue squad than it is to take a well intentioned police officer or fire fighter and turn him into an experieced diver. I'd keep the membership options open and make team membership a competetive thing with tryouts and high standards for diving ability.

If you are limited to having city or county employed divers due to response time, insurance coverage, etc. consider using them for a "rescue" squad, but then also consider using more experienced volunteer divers on day two when it becomes a recovery effort. You'll get better results and risk fewer dive related injuries that way.
 
Yeah, and lastly don't take anything the Monday morning quarterbacks say to seriously...

Sometimes you will run into folks who think they could have conducted every operation better and more efficiently than you. This illusion is often a result of never having to conduct the operations but comparing them to thier diving experiences...

You know the folks to ask for information or help are the ones that impress you with diving skills and some tact not the ones who can talk a big game on shore...

It is kind of funny you know when the only way to make themselves look good is to point out others percieved errors...

Jeff Lane
 
You seem a little touchy there Jeff. I'm just saying if someone is going to start a dive rescue team with a local fire company, equipment considerations should be the least of their worries. Rescue diving requires training, professionalisim and dedication and if any of those factors is absent, then you really are better off skipping the idea - someone will get hurt.

Most police officers and fire fighters are very well versed on techiques and procedures specific to their fields and would not think of using someone who is improperly trained or only minimally proficient. But ironically at the same time I see these same professionals on dive teams where they do not show the same level of care and concern to the team's diving operations.

The sad part is Jeff that it is this same attitude that you express, an attitude condemning any constructive critisim from outside that keeps our local dive rescue team from improving. Local dive rescue teams can become a elite club's where the justifications of the group become a barrier to any real change.

I do not disagree that rescue and recovery diving is different, but the specific skills required need to be on top of diving skills that are already well developed and second nature.
 
Yes I agree although you may be somewhat supprised to find my post was not directed at you specifically. This is an ongoing issue among many types of divers, talking garbage about other divers is not going to get them to improve and most certainly will not make you look better. In the water it is obvious who has the experience, training , and techniques to perform a given task and that is what counts. Words are just a meaningless waste of energy in my opinion when discussing diving skills.

I am in agreement with the statements made about training in your second post but the first did not appear to be constructive in the least.

I disagree about the equipment concerns, I think it speaks very well of any team who queries working teams about equipment issues. Why waste the time and funds to conduct training on equipment not suitable to the mission.

You bring up fantastic points about training and even brought up some good points about liability issues at the end the first post.

On occassion I have had to bring some of them up when they panic or otherwise screw up. They are nice enough guys but really suck as divers.

Your intitial paragraph set the mood of the entire post, it would be dificult for me to look past the venom of such statements and see the constructive portions of your post.

Jeff Lane
 
I don't want to speculate about the incidents you've outlined because obviously I wasn't on scene but perhaps there were reasons for hesitation.

The chief may have wanted the instructor to take more of a command role of the rescue. Someone needs to actually be in charge of the incident and it should be someone who is a specialist of the incident type IF possible. The officer that was the incident commander may have not have been as well versed in water rescues as the instructor (this is usually the case in my dept). Without good command you either get lucky or pooch the op.
If this instructor is the team leader, perhaps he should send the other divers first. The most experience usually can be better served as command.
You're right, seconds do count but in any sort of rescue from a building collapse to a car accident if you watch it it would seem painfully slow and perhaps obvious what needs to be done to the observer. One of the reasons is so that the rescuer doesn't become a victim and if the incident deteriorates the rescuers will be ready to address additional problems.

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...


What really frosts me is that on one rescue where the victim had been down only 14 minutes in very cold water, the fire chief suggested the instructor on the team not go in the water as he was always the first one in the water. His thought was that it would be good to let one of the other divers go first. Stupid. Seonds and minutes count and if the rest of the team is slow that's too bad. To the instructors credit he went anyway.

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