need help on BP/Wings purchase.....

[gmbaker]

Looking for advice on BP&W purchase.

I have gone through and read most of the threads and gotten lots of good nuggets of info, but still am a little unsure. Any advice is appreciated.

I currently dive with a single al80 with a 7mm wetsuit and use 26-28lbs of weight. A steel tank may come into the picture, but not right away. Same for the dry suit. Probably 1 yr down the road. In addition, I dive the cold waters of new england and might take a trip or 2 to warmer temps, but most dives will be locally.

One of the things that I am asking for help is trying to find which set up would work for the way I am currently weighted with my BC ( Sherwood avid).

10lbs on weight belt and 16 in integrated pockets. I have been able to get the total weight down to 26, but gained a little weight this winter, so I am going with 28 for now.

Right now if I dive with the 28lbs -6lbs (plate) = 22lbs.
Assume I can remove 2 more for air trapped in BC = 20lbs.
Is 2 lbs a fair estimate for air trapped when going from a BC-> BP/wings? I have heard it is as much as 6.

So now I am theoretically down to 20lbs, but that's still more than I want to wear on my weight belt. I think after reading a few posts I am opting not to go with the ACB, but the thought of carrying 10lbs on the belt is not a good one. Any suggestions?

I am having problems deciding which route to go based on the above criteria:

Full Halcyon Pioneer 36# set up.
What do people like/dislike about the new 2003 built in STA?

How about the 36# wing with a Fred T plate and his STA?
If I used his STA, it would be just for the extra weight. Any opinions on if this is a good idea?
What about the single vs. 2 piece STA?
With the al80, are there any issues vs. using a steel tank when using the STA?


How about Gary D's plate, Does he offer a STA?


General question: Is there another option for the cam straps for the pioneer wing or is this the only route to go?


Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Scubaroo]

gmbaker once bubbled...
What about the single vs. 2 piece STA?

I own and have used both of FredT's STA designs, and interchanged them over a couple of dives in different configurations. With a steel tank, IMO the heavy 1 piece STA just puts too much weight on your back, and depending on your overall weighting requirements, can ruin your trim. Even with a drysuit, the combination of a 6lb plate, 5lb STA, and negative steel tank made me head-heavy - with an aluminum tank it would probably work, but I own a steel tank, so it's a moot point for me. I now use a combination of a Halcyon 6lb plate, and FredT's lightweight 2 piece STA, which comes in around 2 pounds. Perfect trim (as far as I can tell without being videotaped!) when using this combination.

I also really like the look of the Koplin lightweight STA - it's a single piece design, and only weighs a pound - plus it also looks narrow enough to fit between the built in rods that form the integrated STA of the Halcyon wings. With the one piece STAs I found that the rods interfered too much, so I removed them by slitting the wing material, pulling the rods out, and aquasealing the slits shut (this has worked fine for 50+ dives in this configuration to date. AquaSeal rocks.). There's a picture of the Koplin lightweight STA here. FredT's stuff is on the American Underwater Lighting website.

So if you decide to use an STA at all (give the integrated STA a try first perhaps?), for an aluminum tank I would recommend either a heavy or light STA, and for steel tanks, a light STA.

Gary Hoadley did list STAs amongst his lineup at one time, but I haven't seen him offer any on his eBay store for months.

 

[leadweight]

Even though I am not a BP sort of guy, I really love good deals. Over at Lloyd Bailey's website I saw a SS Diverite BP with a DR Classic wing for $295. OK, it is a doubles setup.

 

[Mo2vation]

Weight trapped in BC
That's over stated. I was diving a SeaQuest Black Diamond - Can there be a fluffier BC? I surely expected to grean an extra couple from losing that creampuff - nada. Sounds great, but in reality, it made no difference.

ACB
I was rolling 20# with my drysuit and Steel 100. Went to BP/W and am still using 20# - but I have a 7# hard weight on each side of the ACB and use the -6 for the BP. I wanted the peace of mind of ditchable weight. I may go to an STA, but only for the weight exchange purposes - the new Pioneer Wing and the new Cam Straps holds my cylinder rock solid. If people are having wobble issues its mis-adjusted.


Remember - the Halcyon cam bands leverage against your cylinder to close, you if you're diving a shiney AL80 in some cool color, etc...its going to get scratched by the SS buckle everytime you close them

Adding a weighted STA will take some weight off the belt - but the more you add to the BP, the more you'll have to swim up in an emergency. 14# isn't too much on my belt line, so I kept that. I wanted at least 50% ditchable - but that's just me.

I just read a post last night where FredT (I believe it was him) recommended cutting out the stiffeners (the built in STA) in the Pioneer wing if you are going to use an STA with it.

The biggest difference between BC and BP (for me) is donning and doffing - no adjustable straps, etc. It took a few times to get in the groove with getting in and out so I don't look like a dork (rule 6, you know...) but I got it down now, haven't torn the dump valve off my drysuit and basically love the rig so far.

Deals are all over the place. These things are on eBay - I have a source as well (PM me) that did real well for me, Lloyd has no freight, but you'll pay FTP, etc. Get your config nailed, then go shopping - because the gear is out there at good prices - you just have to hunt.

K

 

[leadweight]

I don't think the problem is air trapping. Rather, some BC's have bouyant materials in them, particularly in the padding. About the worst is going to be 4# from what I have been able to determine. Some BC's are neutrally bouyant.

The main reason for the dramatic reduction in weight that some people experience when switching to a BP probably has more to do with improvements in trim. I have noticed this with divers using conventional gear. Once they moved some weight from their belt area to rear mounted trim pockets and started to dive flat in the water, they suddenly have this realization that they are overweighted and set out to fix it.

 

[Mo2vation]

Maybe that Black Diamond, for all its poof was neutral, or maybe even a bit neg.

It was a LOT heavier than by BP set up, plus it took a lot more room up in the bag. But with its big plastic hard back plate, and the stiff sides on the belt, maybe a lot of the bulk wasn't from all that fluff, you know? Maybe some of that bulk kept some of the buoyancy of all that padding in check.

That could be the reason I didn't sink like a rock with the same weighting when I went to the BP...

Hmmmmm

 

[leadweight]

I was over at the LDS yesterday to buy some doo dad and saw a black diamond on the wall. Mo2, it was absolutely gigantic. I may not use a BP, and the DIR crowd considers me to be cracked, but you gotta be better off with that BP than the black dia. don't worry about the weight. I don't dive dry, but I have seen enough posts from those that do to be able to say that at 20# you should have nothing to complain about. Rather than a weighted STA, you might be able to make a channel weight. I think Uncle Pug did one. Less expensive and puts the lead closer to your back.

 

[gmbaker]

rather than guss, I need to ask this:

If I have a Halcyon plate and wing can I use a Fred T's STA or the one from Koplin?

This might dictate as to whether I buy the whole Halcyon unit or just the wing and someone elses plate

I am really interested in getting the weight belt reduced from 20lbs, so the use of a STA seems the way to go, but it also seems that trying the rig, getting it set up and then adding elements such as the STA much be a good idea too. thoughts????

 

[Scubaroo]

Try the rig without the STA - that's how it is designed to be used, maybe now that Halcyon has a new cam band design that doesn't seperate at the buckle, the integrated STA may be the bee's knees. You could add either STA later if you decide you want the extra stability or weight.

Lots of people report that their tank stability is just fine without an STA - I did not find this to be the case, although it might have been a case of being a backplate newbie when I made up my mind about using an STA.