need best second stage regs for shallow dives

[puk00puk00]

Here’s a classic concern but I can’t find concise answers to my questions in any old threads, so here’s a new post to stir the pot again… I’m sure many newbies will benefit from your response and opinions

I have several questions about the appropriate second stage regs / octos for shallow reef-edge (to 20 feet) rec diving… I have zero interest in expanding the diving to deeper or colder water.

Dive application/use:

shallow dives ONLY, max 20 feet
warm water, hawaii
shell collecting only, just a little fishing
need low-cost second stages/octos
all other gear already gifted to us; used, mixed brands
ust need second stage
Presently leaning towards Apeks AT20 no breathing adjustments or Zeagle zx octo (deluxe Envoy) with breating adjust or Dive Rite 1200.


Questions:

<sum> Is there much detectable breathing effort difference between low cost ($100) second stage regs at 20 feet?

<sum> Do “ breathing effort adjustments” on 2nd stages make any difference at 20 ft.

<sum> Is there much detectable (breath easy) difference between adjustable "primary second stage" and safe simple octo performance at 20 feet?


<sum> Any suggestions for a few brand choices if you feel some differences exist?

<sum> Prime reason for the three brands in my mind is easy of diy service; I am isolated geographically (Molokai) and want the assurance of knowing the job was done correctly… I have downloaded all the manuals and everything seems as simple as overhauling a firearm or carburetor.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Inexpensive second stages from different manufacturers do vary in breathing effort. They vary in terms of inhalation effort, flow rate and the more subjective things such as smoothness of the airflow and the general "feel" of the air delivery.

Furthermore, a more expensive balanced second stage will breathe better even at 20 ft than a cheaper unbalnced regulator. Since the dives at shallow depths are usually much longer than deeper recreational dives, this can be a very important consideration.

A second stage with a diver adjustable inhalation effort is also nice as it allows the reg to be tuned for the minimum breathing effort needed for a particular diver orientation. This differnce is valuable whether the depth is 20 ft or 200 ft. More a diver adjustable cracking effort allows cracking effort to be increased in neccesary if swimming into a current or if you are in a strong surge - the latter a frequent occurrence in shallow water.

I like both Scubapro and Aqulaung. USD/Aqualung's basic unbalanced downsteam poppet second stage design tends to deliver great cracking efforts for an inexpensive downstream design, but the subjective aspects are not quite as good or as consistent as similar Scubapro designs like the R190, R295, or R390.

In terms of more expensive balanced regulators, I prefer the performance, design simplicity and high parts commonality of Scubapro regs like the G250, S550, S600 and X650.

I am not a Dacor/Mares fan as I have never been impressed with the durability or quality of many of their second stages. In my opinion they have too many cheap plastic parts in critical areas that are also not normally replaced on an annual basis.

If you are adding second stages to existing first stages, Scubapro is a good choice as they are designed to work in a normal IP range of 120 to 150 psi which will acccommodate nearly every first stage out there.

 

[puk00puk00]

Inexpensive second stages from different manufacturers do vary in breathing effort. They vary in terms of inhalation effort, flow rate and the more subjective things such as smoothness of the airflow and the general "feel" of the air delivery.

Furthermore, a more expensive balanced second stage will breathe better even at 20 ft than a cheaper unbalnced regulator. Since the dives at shallow depths are usually much longer than deeper recreational dives, this can be a very important consideration.

A second stage with a diver adjustable inhalation effort is also nice as it allows the reg to be tuned for the minimum breathing effort needed for a particular diver orientation. This differnce is valuable whether the depth is 20 ft or 200 ft. More a diver adjustable cracking effort allows cracking effort to be increased in neccesary if swimming into a current or if you are in a strong surge - the latter a frequent occurrence in shallow water.

I like both Scubapro and Aqulaung. USD/Aqualung's basic unbalanced downsteam poppet second stage design tends to deliver great cracking efforts for an inexpensive downstream design, but the subjective aspects are not quite as good or as consistent as similar Scubapro designs like the R190, R295, or R390.

In terms of more expensive balanced regulators, I prefer the performance, design simplicity and high parts commonality of Scubapro regs like the G250, S550, S600 and X650.

I am not a Dacor/Mares fan as I have never been impressed with the durability or quality of many of their second stages. In my opinion they have too many cheap plastic parts in critical areas that are also not normally replaced on an annual basis.

If you are adding second stages to existing first stages, Scubapro is a good choice as they are designed to work in a normal IP range of 120 to 150 psi which will acccommodate nearly every first stage out there.

[/FONT]It comes as no surprise that I have the honor of moderator himself taking on my questions! This forum’s friendliness and professionalism easily exceeds that of several other boards I visit on totally different topics; ie, homebrew, off-road equipment. I have spent hours and hours lurking thru the reg threads looking for solid answers to these questions and not found so far. Well… here they are in the database finally for all the newbie rec divers to see and absorb.

I suspected that breathing beween zero and 20 feet had some unique aspects that needed to be addressed compared to deeper work. Being prepared to adjust for surge and current is a biggie in my water. Without your guidance I would have disregarded the value of quality gear being just a important in shallow as deeper… for those who want to be breathing as comfortably as possible.

I reckon I am now prepared to make more intelligent decisions on how I spend my 2nd stage dollars. It’s really a gooood feeling to go shopping with some clear goals in mind. The subjective aspects of 2nd stage choices that generate all the fun discussion here have all been hashed out in the thousands of archived posts, so I really feel empowered to be a smart reg buyer for my particular application.

When I think of the thousands of posts, it brings to mind the thousands and thousands of hours you all have invested in making this board what is has become; clearly, one of the best of the best of all web boards.

Mahalo from a satisfied newbie customer… I’ll be shopping here again. Ciao, chuck

 

[puk00puk00]

RE: sawtooth shallow dives

I just skimmed thru the thread below (sawtooth dive profile) and though clearly off the reg topic, decided it needed (for safety’s sake) to be attached to my equipment thread since the shallow dive sawtooth profile could easily be ignored or totally missed by a newbie reading my shallow dive thread. The sawtooth piece totally got my attention since it applies directly to my situation. Once again, I am appreciating our moderator’s advice that shallow dives are to be treated with the same respect as deeper work.

DA Aquamaster did a great reply to my direct questions…. He had no clue as to what info was NOT in my head, so logically might not address this safety topic in his response to my gear post… these threads could go on forever if we covered every single dive detail…..


ScubaBoard > Scuba Diving Central > Basic Scuba Discussions
Any danger from several shallow dives in a row?

So, my thanks to Jared’s informant’s to get the sawtooth issue out on the table. Chuck (puk00puk00)



…not sure how i might be "feeling" (future) if hadn't fallen into this sawtooth profile thread…