Near miss at 90 foot.

[Mike Edmonston]

There's also a difference between "could have" and "should have". We "could" skip our safety stop on every recreational dive.

I'm not saying what his buddy "should" have done, I'm saying it was his call based upon his assessment of the situation and personal regard. Mike said "should", not "could", as if it was a definite obligation. That's the only point I'm contesting.

Hi Reef,

From reading the OP's accounts of the incident, I believe that his buddy should have gone to the surface with him.

1. The diver was experiencing a problem and called the dive before NDL limits were reached.

2. He was having breathing difficulties, and his buddy has no way of knowing if he will have enough gas to inlate his BCD at the surface. Presure gauges malfunction too.

3. Most diving related deaths occur AT THE SURFACE

4. Since this was a recreational dive (and a quick one at that) ther was no DECO obligation on the part of the diver or the buddy.

5. If the buddy watched from the safety stop, could he react in time to establish buoyancy, and save the OP's life if the S**T hit the fan and the OP was unconscious and dropping like a rock?

6. I would rather get mildly bent, then have to carry my friend's casket because I failed to act.

These are my opinions, please feel free to tear them apart to make your points.

Cheers

 

[ReefHound]

If his psychic buddy knew all of this then maybe he would have ascended to the surface. But we haven't heard his version of the story so I don't see where you can say what he "should" have done.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

I tryed to get his attention by banging on my tank with my knife. When he surfaced, I was still breathing hard and needed help getting out of the water.

Uh... Reef...

This is a direct quote from the OP. Maybe if you READ the post a little bit, you would understand.

HIS BUDDY SHOULD HAVE COME UP WITH HIM! This was an emergency situation.

Just because you'd rather cover your own butt and stay at the safety stop, doesn't mean that the rest of the planet would let their friend drown.

I don't see where you can say what he "should" have done.

And that's why I'll never dive with you.

 

[diver 85]

Man, you've got some problems to (mentally) straighten out......REMEBER, none of this is a competition----which reminds me of the 2 cousins(local boys on Roatan) that got into a deep dive contest between the 2 of them & both lost...My son & several others found their bodies late than afternoon on the reef & each had about 250'+ something registered on their depth guages.....This was in the late 90's(before computers were popular especially to the Roatan locals) out of the Inn of Last Resort, in particular the dive site was Hole in the Wall right out in front of ILR.....This stuff WILL/CAN kill you if you're not careful & if you don't use your brain....I would rethink alot of your diving ways.......good luck.....It is a fun sport, keep it that away........

 

[dave4868]

My dive buddy had been talking for weeks about going deep. He has also been a diver for 11 years and has several hundred dives. I knew I was not ready for depth, but I didn't want to "let him down", "wimp out", "make him keep babysitting me"... (Insert any ego trip here you think fits). And come on, I'm a deep diver, heck, I've been to 68'

Heres where the mistakes start...

1. I wasn't mentally ready for the dive and I knew it.

2. Ego over rode common sence (can't wimp out)

3. New equipment I was not farmilure with. Ocean reef mask I had just bought with a flow valve. I didn't really understand the valve. I only had a couple dives on this mask and they were all shallow

4. The first dive of the day was to 60' and we had no business going deeper on the second, even though we only planned to go 70' and ran the numbers to make sure we were ok

Your willingness to do an honest self-appraisal is great! If you'll forgive a little psychobabble, sharing it here might be a sign of an extreme risk-taker.... ..... but people have been gentle with you, this time!

Actually, you've received great advice, and my only advice is that over-analyzing can be a pitfall....because of the false sense of security it sometimes creates.

I'm guessing that your pre-dive thought process was as analytical as your posting, and that leads me to agree with you that something led you away from your own accurate assessment of being "not ready for depth". I agree the result was you succumbed to some "ego trip".

If you really get a handle on why you felt you were "not ready for depth", you'll find it easier to deflect the pressures from others and especially from yourself.

The moral of the story ?

#1 Never try to compete with another diver !!!!

#2 Don't dive new equipment your not farmilure with on a dive you've never done before

#3 Never let panic get the better of you. One dumb move in the heat of the moment could kill you

#4 Never, (and I can stress this enough) N-E-V-E-R let your ego over ride your common sence. Would you reather sit out a dive or have them say how brave you were at you funeral ?????

You've made an excellent point not to let ego (in it's many forms) get you into territory that might overwhelm you. It happens often.

Can't tell you how many times a buddy would not divulge some "issues" they were having despite my best efforts to totally eliminate peer pressure coming from me. Makes me think it's primarily their own self-pressure.

That certainly increases the danger of buddy diving....

For 7 months after this incident, I didn't like diving anymore. I dove, but it wasn't fun. I was scared to death every time I went under and it was just miserable. I made up my mind over thanksgiving this year that i was sick of being scared and I was going to conqure this fear. Diving gear I am very farmilure with at Blue Grotto, in Florida, I set 3 new personal deep records of 99' 98' and 96'. 99' was sitting on the bottom, but I did feel comfortable enought to go deeper, and was a little disapointed I didn't break 100'

Putting unnecessary pressure on yourself again?

I'm all for expanding one's experience and "desensitizing" fear-producing situations, but be careful about it. You don't want to be tiptoeing next to the knife edge of a panic-causing situation without a real good handle on your internal emotional status.... and that can be hard to sort out from all the other new sensations and tasks you're handling.

I made these dives not prove anthing to anyone, but because I love diving and wanted to get past my fear. I made them to prove it to myself. I was mentally prepared, had the right gear, and was fully prepared to end the dive if I felt uncomfortable.

You know it's amazing, doing it right, and for the right reasons, make those the 3 greatest dive I've done yet !!! Only bad thing is I've cought the bug again and want to dive all the time again...

If anyone has any questions, please ask. I hope this will help some one learn from my mistakes.

Dive Safe,
Tim

My biggest mistakes have occurred when I've put aside my self-assessment for some reason.

Above and below water, going slow and communicating openly and effectively with a buddy seems to make a huge difference for me.

Good luck!

Dave C

 

[popsiclediver]

After re-reading the OP, it was the BUDDY who called the dive, only because of air, because the BUDDY had the foresight to notice that he wasn't reading his gauges. I didn't read where the diver signaled he had an issue at ALL, in fact, he was 'happy' from Narcosis.
There was NO indication of an emergency until the buddy surfaced after doing his stop. Buddy was probably wondering why he'd blown it, but without any indication of trouble, how are they to know?
Granted we could spend days on the Buddy Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, but what happened to Stop, Think, Breathe?
At the surface, when he blew his stop, did he inflate his BC, pop in his snorkel and relax? if not, did he signal for help?
As the more experienced diver I may have kept a closer eye on the less experienced diver on the ascent, within arms reach and may have noticed something wrong if he had 'that look' in his eyes, and done the stop together.
Its impossible to say whether or not closer buddy contact MAY have calmed him down, at least enough to communicate that there was a more serious issue developing and to proceed appropriately from there.
But despite thousands of dollars in fancy gear, it doesn't assist our mind-reading capabilities...
Stop, Think, Breathe...repeat

 

[ReefHound]

Uh... Reef...

This is a direct quote from the OP. Maybe if you READ the post a little bit, you would understand.

HIS BUDDY SHOULD HAVE COME UP WITH HIM! This was an emergency situation.

Just because you'd rather cover your own butt and stay at the safety stop, doesn't mean that the rest of the planet would let their friend drown.

And that's why I'll never dive with you.

Dude, you're the one who needs to learn to Read for Comprehension. Nowhere, at any point, did the OP state that the buddy was AWARE of any problem until he surfaced. Like I said, maybe he should have been PSYCHIC.

Please re-read the quote you cited, the OP "tried" to signal his buddy, no indication his buddy received the signal. In fact, the OP said he was banging on the rubber boot not the metal. Nice of you to snip that out of the middle.

As for being your dive buddy, who cares? I wouldn't want to be blamed for not being able to read your mind anyway. For the record, I didn't say what I personally would have done, I said it's a diver's personal call based on the situation. I would bet you feel the same way but your 3000 dive ego prevents you from admitting it.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

After re-reading the OP, it was the BUDDY who called the dive, only because of air, because the BUDDY had the foresight to notice that he wasn't reading his gauges. I didn't read where the diver signaled he had an issue at ALL, in fact, he was 'happy' from Narcosis.
There was NO indication of an emergency until the buddy surfaced after doing his stop. Buddy was probably wondering why he'd blown it, but without any indication of trouble, how are they to know?
Granted we could spend days on the Buddy Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, but what happened to Stop, Think, Breathe?
At the surface, when he blew his stop, did he inflate his BC, pop in his snorkel and relax? if not, did he signal for help?
As the more experienced diver I may have kept a closer eye on the less experienced diver on the ascent, within arms reach and may have noticed something wrong if he had 'that look' in his eyes, and done the stop together.
Its impossible to say whether or not closer buddy contact MAY have calmed him down, at least enough to communicate that there was a more serious issue developing and to proceed appropriately from there.
But despite thousands of dollars in fancy gear, it doesn't assist our mind-reading capabilities...
Stop, Think, Breathe...repeat

This is a good discussion.

I think that the buddy being more experienced should have noticed something was wrong when ghe OP blew the safety stop. Even at 15ft, he could have seen the OP pulling out his knife and trying to bang on the tank to get his attention.

I agree with you that we could be playin the shoulda coulda game all day. They both survived, therefore Now they can learn from it and apply it to the next dive.

Buddy awareness is the key, as mind reading does suck underwater..

Cheers

 

[ReefHound]

After re-reading the OP, it was the BUDDY who called the dive, only because of air, because the BUDDY had the foresight to notice that he wasn't reading his gauges.

Even that is somewhat of an assumption. For all we know, the buddy was even lower on air and called the dive for his own reasons, and was simply noting the pressure for both divers at time of ascent.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Dude, you're the one who needs to learn to Read for Comprehension. Nowhere, at any point, did the OP state that the buddy was AWARE of any problem until he surfaced. Like I said, maybe he should have been PSYCHIC.

Please re-read the quote you cited, the OP "tried" to signal his buddy, no indication his buddy received the signal. In fact, the OP said he was banging on the rubber boot not the metal. Nice of you to snip that out of the middle.

As for being your dive buddy, who cares? I wouldn't want to be blamed for not being able to read your mind anyway. For the record, I didn't say what I personally would have done, I said it's a diver's personal call based on the situation. I would bet you feel the same way but your 3000 dive ego prevents you from admitting it.

Sorry reef,

But I have **ZERO** ego. I have nothing to prove to anyone. You know what's even cooler than the 3000+ dives that I've done? It's that I surfaced just as many times. Think about it.....

Safe diving...