Near miss at 90 foot.

[battles2a5]

Man, keep in mind you are getting advice on the internet. There is definitely a draconian sentiment on this board where if you are going anywhere outside of industry accepted norms you are a cowboy and you are bringing any resulting misfortune on yourself. Don't let it get to you.

HOWEVER, I will support the notion that these kind of things take time and you need to work up to your goals. It sounds like you have deconstructed this incident enough that you realize where you went wrong, how you could have handled it more effectively and are ready to put your new-found wisdom to practice. That is good. The next question is how to get there. Continuing to dive in a comfortable environment with equipment you are used to is the perfect place to explore your limits. Don't throw too many variables at yourself at one time. If you have done the same dive a few times and want to go 10-20ft deeper then by all means, knock yourself out. Once that new depth is comfortable go 10-20 deeper, etc. I think people here will generally scoff at just plunging to the depths without the experience to back it up.

As for your deep cert... My biggest concern is that many charters (at least around here) will want to see a deep card and an AOW cert to go on some more advanced off-shore wrecks. So you can flash that card on a dive boat and get carted 40 miles off-shore to a 130ft wreck. That would be a bad thing. Or a student walking out of your class with a new deep card saying, "Sweet, I have all the information and trianing I need to dive to 130". Wrong. I think your instructor did you a disservice. I would try to find a new instructor or an experienced diver in your area that can help you reach your goals. Just make sure they actually know what they are doing.

Again, don't take the criticism too hard. Nobody wants to see anyone else get hurt. It takes a lot to share experiences like this, especially to an anonymous crowd like the internet so just take from it whatever you feel will help you in the long run.

Battles, I must admit it surprises me also. The information on CO2 loading is helpful, I've never heard it before.

What surprises me the most is the "your back to your old tricks trying for 100' " and "why dive below 30 feet" sediment that seams to be an ongoing topic in replys. Granted, knowledge is the key to avoding problems (hence the point of this post... another missed point) What good will knowledge do if not supported by experience.

In a deep class (well maybe some that I didn't take) you learn theory, then you dive deep. Knowledge and Experience. Since this incident I have spent many hours on research and introspection to see what happen.

Now that I have a better understanding, farther along in my skills, and believe I am physicaly and mentally ready for deep dives, I'm told told that is a bad thing ???

Confused....
Tim

 

[ReefHound]

3. Your buddy should have come up with you, did you signal OOA? were you OOA? are you comfortable with your equipment now?

Well, you're the instructor with 3000 dives so who am I to disagree. But I will anyway. A diver has no obligation to blow his safety stop just because his inexperienced buddy does, especially when there has been no OOA or other distress signal and there is no clear problem evident. And even if there is, unless the victim needs direct assistance to get to the surface, I think it is the diver's call.

 

[rrjc5488]

Well, you're the instructor with 3000 dives so who am I to disagree. But I will anyway. A diver has no obligation to blow his safety stop just because his inexperienced buddy does, especially when there has been no OOA or other distress signal and there is no clear problem evident. And even if there is, unless the victim needs direct assistance to get to the surface, I think it is the diver's call.

Eh, I'd say both of you are right. It would really depend on the situation.

His buddy could have gone up with him because at no point during recreational diving should anyone be in a required deco situation. Theres a difference between a safety stop and a deco stop. Deco: required. Safety: encouraged but by no means a requirement.

As for depending on the situation, if my buddy showed no sign of OOA or a problem and he skipped his safety stop, I'd probably stay to do mine. If we ascended from deeper than say 85 feet, I'd be more likely to do my safety stop. Also, if by any chance we ascended kinda quickly, I'd be more likely to do my stop.

If it were a shallow dive and we ascended slow enough, I'd go up with my buddy.


That said, wouldnt you signal to your buddy to level off and do his safety stop? If I did that and he surfaced anyway, I'd probably go up with him to see what was wrong.

Just my two cents.

 

[ReefHound]

His buddy could have gone up with him because at no point during recreational diving should anyone be in a required deco situation. Theres a difference between a safety stop and a deco stop. Deco: required. Safety: encouraged but by no means a requirement.

There's also a difference between "could have" and "should have". We "could" skip our safety stop on every recreational dive.

I'm not saying what his buddy "should" have done, I'm saying it was his call based upon his assessment of the situation and personal regard. Mike said "should", not "could", as if it was a definite obligation. That's the only point I'm contesting.

 

[sunnyboy]

One common "complaint" about the full face mask (FFM) is that they can create a "dead space" that can trap CO2.

If you were stressed (and it sounds like you were), and breathing fast and shallow, you probably were not clearing the CO2 from the FFM effectively. Kinda like rapid breathing into a paper bag.

It really sounds like a CO2 hit to me. Narced goes away when you ascend.

Cheers,

-S

 

[getwet2]

I did surface with about 900# in the tank. It was just the valve

If you had looked at your guage on the way up or at any other time for that matter you would have noticed you had lots of air and would not have felt you had to get to the surface in such a hurry, which in turn would have made you NOT panic.

Just because your buddy tells you it's time to go up doesn't mean you are low on air. When your buddy looked at your guage and gave the thumbs up sign you probably had a 1000lbs or more of air in your tank.

Slow down and always read your guages at ANY depth.

 

[SEA~TEC]

Getwet2...

I don't think looking at my guages would have helped the problem of having the flow valve turned down on the mask. The panic was from actually suficating in the mask due to a greatly reduced flow of air fromt the second stage. Knowing i had 900# wouldn't have made the reg breath easyer, opening the valve would would have helped the panic. Due to the hypoxia I was not able to think clearly enough to think of that.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, you're the instructor with 3000 dives so who am I to disagree. But I will anyway. A diver has no obligation to blow his safety stop just because his inexperienced buddy does, especially when there has been no OOA or other distress signal and there is no clear problem evident. And even if there is, unless the victim needs direct assistance to get to the surface, I think it is the diver's call.

I guess it depends how you have decided to dive together. I know divers who dive computers and all go their own way during decompression, each following their own computer. When I've been on trips with them, I have my own buddy and we stay together and dive the SAME ascent schedule.

If my buddy skips a planned stop, I have to assume there is some kind of problem. Since we plan on ascending together, I have to assume some kind of problem if they leave. I would certainly blow off a safety stop to stay with a buddy who may be having a problem. For that matter, In most cases, I wouldn't hesitate to "re-adjust" mandatory decompression to stay with a buddy having a problem.

Ascents and descents are dynamic portions of the dive where problems are most likely to occur. This is when you need to be most on your toes and prepared to respond. Rarely does a diver have a problem when they're swimming in circles near the bottom looking around.

 

[treeman469]

Proud of Tim... I know you are going to conquer your fears... just do it in an orderly fashion,,,, Stay loose.
kevin

 

[MikeFerrara]

Getwet2...

I don't think looking at my guages would have helped the problem of having the flow valve turned down on the mask. The panic was from actually suficating in the mask due to a greatly reduced flow of air fromt the second stage. Knowing i had 900# wouldn't have made the reg breath easyer, opening the valve would would have helped the panic. Due to the hypoxia I was not able to think clearly enough to think of that.

I'm assuming you were vertical and maybe look up during your ascent? That's what made the reg breath harder. "IF" there was a CO2 problem, that may have also contributed to your feeling of not getting enough air (dispnea).

Adjusting the valve would have helped and if you had been ascending in a horizontal position the valve probably wouldn't have needed to be adjusted.

I used to teach a FFM course and part of that course was practicing changing positions and adjusting the valve as needed. There isn't any rocket science to it and I don't know that you need an instructor for it but it does make sense to practice those equipment specific procedures in a controled environment.